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WIdiver_Paul · 11-13-2003, 02:10 PM,

Ahh, so if you're getting the premix blend, it's coming from a seperate tank, but the problem is they may or may not have a compressor that is 02 clean... I'm sure you'd be okay if that's the only dive shop you went in to, but if you got a dirty fill and didn't subsequently always get premix, there would be a PP blend going in to a tank that isn't 02 clean. Yikes! Trust me, you don't want that dirty air from their regular compressors anyhow. Just take off your SPG from your high pressure hose and take a look at all that crud if you've been using conventional air sources, you can definitely tell the difference between shops that have 1, 2 or 4 filters on their lines!!

LKunze · (This post was last modified: 11-14-2003, 09:24 AM by LKunze.)

Very true, however the shops that bank the premix do the mixing with partial pressure blending using hyper pure air. If I later went to a shop that did not have hyper pure air for an air fill and then went back to the other shop again for say, an EAN32 premix fill there wouldn't be an issue as the premix is below EAN40. As my tanks are now shops technically shouldn't even give me a partial pressure fill in my tanks because my tanks are not O2 cleaned and do not have the "O2 Clean" sticker on them. Any shop that would give me a partial pressure fill without the O2 clean sticker would technically be breaking a regulation I guess and doing so at their own risk so to speak.

tpscuba · 11-14-2003, 11:26 AM,

Like some have said this is a forum and everyone has an opinion. As I read through the topics I have seen individuals with atitudes and being very head strong. It makes things interesting.
About Corey from PSI, We have had PSI come in and do cylinder Inspection courses for the past 6 years, even before Corey came on board with PSI.
The pass 3 courses we have had Corey instruct, and he gives a very good class of instruction. He is there to teach inspectors how to accomplish what needs to be done, it's very intense.
To not want to take a PSI course to learn how to inspect cylinders because of his opinion on Nitrox just don't make sense. There are other instructor that one can travel to, to get the training if they have a problem with another instructor and for those that are Divemasters and above you can take the course at DEMA.

LKunze · 11-14-2003, 12:18 PM,

Rick, on the topic of this discussion what is your official opinion on filling tanks with air with a nitrox sticker on it? I have received several "air" fills in my tanks from your shop over the last couple years and my tanks have the nitrox stickers on them. You've never questioned this or given me any problems as the one shop I had problems with. Seeing as how you have trained with PSI and according to them you shouldn't fill a nitrox stickered tank with air even if the contents label indicates air I'm just curious about your thoughts on this.

tpscuba · (This post was last modified: 11-14-2003, 01:05 PM by tpscuba.)

We use synthetic oil and we dump all the air out we should have removed the Nitrox sticker, but we must have missed it.
As far as a regulation I am looking for it, if it is there.
The training we conduct is for cylinder inspection certification and Nitrox never came up in the classes. These classes are directed to a good and complete inspection of scuba and SCBA tanks for cracks, pits, bulges, properly stamped tanks (we had one come through where the individual tried to stamp his own hydro) and electronic testing.
We have a course on Sat. Jan 17th 2004 If I don't find an answer by then I will ask about it.
Amendment 1
I got a hold of the Department of Transportation and the gentleman that assisted me said there is no regulation that states when going from one breathing gas to another ie; Nitrox back to air, but there is a safety factor up to the filling station. We take the stickers off (unless we miss it) so that they would need to be O2 cleaned before filling again. The big thing I would say to watch is if you are filling better than 40% then the o-rings need to be totally changed, but for safety we change them for under 40% whats a few dollars when it comes to your life (Murphy's Law).

LKunze · (This post was last modified: 11-14-2003, 01:39 PM by LKunze.)

OK, my problem with this is that some shops require that you have that $8.00 nitrox sticker on the tank to fill it with nitrox. This is a joke. That would mean that you have to buy a stupid sticker every time you want a nitrox fill and then take it off with a razor blade everytime you want an air fill. I find that very unreasonable. Fortunately the shop I usually get my nitrox fills from could care less if I have the nitrox sticker on the tank or not. I'll proabably just take the stickers off my tanks then. I'll just be limited in shops where I can get nitrox fills but at least I won't have to deal with this issue of refused air fills due to the stickers anymore.

tpscuba · 11-14-2003, 01:49 PM,

When I started doing Nitrox I had 2 tanks for it and 2 tanks for air. I can see where you are coming from. The shop that doesn't care about the sticker that is there call, but the way I look at it is if something did happen and the DOT comes in with the investigation along with OSHA and probably PSI (as they have been involved with cylinder investigations) and they trace back who handled the cylinders we don't need the families lawyers knocking on our door. I have seen best of friends family sue over the lost of their love one. I guess this is where the gentleman said we have to look at the safety and our comfort for letting something go out the door and suffer the consequences for our actions. I guess we have to live with our decissions.

LKunze · (This post was last modified: 11-14-2003, 01:59 PM by LKunze.)

I guess the thing I find quite odd on this is that the majority of tech divers that I have seen do not have Nitrox stickers on their tanks. All they do is label them with content, typically just the MOD. Also, in the TDI nitrox class there is no mention of not being able to put air in a tank with a nitrox sticker. Oh well, I'll put this one to rest. I have no problems putting nitrox in my tanks without that big sticker. I pretty much just do local diving anyway and if I get nitrox fills it's usually in town here and I usually only get air fills when I go to other shops out of town. As long as I have a contents label on my tanks and I know what's in the tank it's good enough for me. Wink

tpscuba · 11-14-2003, 02:43 PM,

I enjoyed the session It made me think and do some research. Being that we are 5-Star Training Center what better place to check is with PADI IRRA and Our insurer. Coming straight from PADI all you need on the tank is a content sticker % of O2. The big stickers that people buy aren't need for the individual, but just like all the chevrons people put on their jackets it's for show and tell. Shops handling a number of tanks use them to keep things straight. As for PADI's recommendation and for insurance they say when filling mixed gas tanks with straight air remove all stickers and empty the tank before filling. This is the policy we will follow for our own piece of mind.
It's been great

Freedive WI · 11-14-2003, 03:33 PM,

D. Richard Boyd, head tech guy at Gloabla Manfg., said that 85% of ALL compressors ore 02 compatialbe without any extra hyper-filters added on to them.

I have mixed with both hyper-filtered air and "normal" comperssor air wihtout any problems- I still have all of my fingers and toes. Wink

Besides premix, there are a few shops around here that use the "Stick" to mix up to 40% with and that requires no 02 cleaning of anything.

In the end you have to do whatever you feel comfortable with. I know that I feel pretty good about using normal air out of a maintained compressor for my mixes. Then again, it's so much easier, and cheaper, to just freedive. ;D

Jon