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maizeperro · 10-13-2010, 07:38 AM,

I thought it was interesting how they could see bubbles ten feet from the zodiac in Lake Superior but could not see the dive gear in the tiny zodiac.

Just to let you all know, I was not there. And I am not trying to flame the GLSPS guys. I only posted the story because I thought it was a funny misunderstanding.

My friends, Wags and Shauer were upset that they drove all the way up to Duluth, fought the traffic and then were driven off the wreck by people they know and thought were fellow divers. No, their radio did not work and maybe they could have approached more carefully and bowed down more respectfully to the GLSPS but it is ironic that while the GLSPS claims to help divers see the wreck this time they only prevented it.

I personally don't care about laws much. I think Phil has a point that they (GLSPS) have to be careful. If anything happened on the Preservation it would be a bigger problem than if it were a private boat.

I think that people get a little too excited about boats near divers. They get away with it pretty well in Mexico and Florida. I don't care if a boat runs over my bubbles.

When I'm on a wreck I'm not to concerned about a boat 60' above me. I tend to use the anchor line for ascents. If I were to surface away from the line I might consider popping a bag in the interest of self preservation.

So again I don't mean to flame or offend anybody, I just thought it was good entertainment. I hope I am still allowed into the DIP show this February!

arcFlash · 10-13-2010, 07:55 AM,

Trying to hook a wreck when there are divers on it is not proper behavior for divers or mariners. They should have waited until the divers returned to the surface and then asked if it was clear to hook in.

Boating in a near shore area without a working radio is unwise and further demonstrates incorrect maritime skills.

Dragon Eye · 10-13-2010, 09:01 AM,

Complete outsider's perspective here:

Knowing the Zodiac divers, I know they are a resourceful pair. I'm sure some communication or signal attempt could of been made to display their intentions. Holding up and waving a diving fin would of been an easy recognized thing and GLSPS could of communicated at least one way with them. They know boating laws and should of followed them, and had a working radio. Yeah it stinks that they went all that way and weren't able to dive where they intended to, but that's life sometimes.

Props to the GLSPS- If I was doing surveying for you I would want someone topside protecting me. It's no different than diving in MTKA. Your likely looking down to do the work you intended to do, and not up for falling anchors. It's good you have protocols in place and follow them.

maizeperro · 10-13-2010, 09:03 AM,

The story I was told indicated the zodiac crew saw many (they thought all) divers on board the Preservation. It appeared the Pres was on the stearn so the zodiac crew maneuvered to the bow and then carefully tried to anchor there.

This guy (Wags) is far from unwise. He's a Captain for a regional airline with over 6000 hours. He has gone to great lengths to ensure safe diving. He has installed a permanent radio in a 14' zodiac (who does that?). He also usually carries emergency O2, an ELT/personal locater beacon and a handheld marine radio (not present on this trip apparently).
They thought the radio was working but sounds like low battery voltage to me (weak/unreadable reported by the Pres crew).

It might have helped if the Pres crew had announced over their loudspeaker directions and suggestions and more relevant info knowing radio comms were not effective rather than reciting the state statutes.

arcFlash · 10-13-2010, 11:46 AM,

I wasn't challenging his intelligence, I question his maritime skills and his profession actually weakens his case. Radio procedures are strictly enforced in the flight deck for this reason. Seeing his did not work and/or the second party not responding should have triggered a risk assessment and the obvious mitigation plan to leave the area or establish proper communication before approaching other craft.

It's unfortunate his radio did not work but equipment failure does not absolve the captains responsibility to make his intentions known to other craft in the area. The preservation being the 'stand on' craft had every right to hold it's ground as law requires stand on craft to do. The Zodiacs failure to announce it's intentions is all that matters.

The story I was told indicated the zodiac crew saw many (they thought all) divers on board the Preservation. It appeared the Pres was on the stearn so the zodiac crew maneuvered to the bow and then carefully tried to anchor there.

This guy (Wags) is far from unwise. He's a Captain for a regional airline with over 6000 hours. He has gone to great lengths to ensure safe diving. He has installed a permanent radio in a 14' zodiac (who does that?). He also usually carries emergency O2, an ELT/personal locater beacon and a handheld marine radio (not present on this trip apparently).
They thought the radio was working but sounds like low battery voltage to me (weak/unreadable reported by the Pres crew).

It might have helped if the Pres crew had announced over their loudspeaker directions and suggestions and more relevant info knowing radio comms were not effective rather than reciting the state statutes.

[/quote]

Terry · 10-13-2010, 08:35 PM,

I personally don't care about laws much.

Where did you grow up, Somalia? Curious how well, that line goes over, when you get pulled over? Dont mean any offense corndog, your probably a cool guy, just like your profile states. Just wondering if you could get your friends Wags and Shauer, to chime in with some first hand knowledge. This sounds like a misunderstanding, but no one on the Preservation would ever expect other divers to have, "bowed down more respectfully to the GLSPS", thats just spin. I ran a Zodiac for 15 years in the Great Lakes and had a permanently mounted VHF along with a depthfinder, that is how we found the Wilson (before GPS and Loran C) thanks to Elmer's book that used dead reconning from landmarks in Duluth. I remember coming up a number of times to find another boat attached to the stern of mine with no one aboard, it always seemed a little forward, like, "hey no concerns guys, my ground tackle can hold ANY number of boat(s)" but not near the issue of seeing an anchor come down next to me while on the wreck. Hope to see you at the DIP show in Feb, always good to throw back a few with other divers there. TRINITY

maizeperro · 10-14-2010, 09:01 AM,

What I mean by this is that I wear my seat belt mainly because I don't wan't to get a $110 fine, like I did recently. I usually wear it but sometimes I forget or am lazy or whatever. When I approach the Wilson with a dive boat moored on it I don't reach for the rules and regs book. I use my best judgement and maybe everyone can have fun that day.

I messaged him on Facebook but I don't think he checks it much. Something tells me he might not be happy that I made this public but I thought it would make a good thread and learning experince for all.

This is a reference to over inflated egos common in diving and likely present on the Preservation that day. Like I stated originally, people get territorial.

I wouldn't be too happy to find another boat tied to mine after a dive. Hate to see both boats drifting away. I'd rather have that boat carefully set it's own anchor elsewhere on the wreck. Pretty unlikely that the anchor is gonna hit me on the head like a cartoon.

But back to "The Wilson Incident"

I was told they tried to head to the bow and anchor there. Good judgement in my opinion. If the Wilson is 300' long and divers are required to remain within 50' of their flag what's the problem?

"(b) A person who places a diver's flag must remain within 50 feet of the flag, measured on the surface of the water."

They tried to get on the wreck without ruffling any feathers and the GLSPS crew just kept screaming and jumping up and down like little kids!

rcojr · (This post was last modified: 10-14-2010, 12:52 PM by jasondbaker.)

Corndogg

Quote:This is a reference to over inflated egos common in diving and likely present on the Preservation that day. Like I stated originally, people get territorial.

Not only was I on the Preservation on the day in question I was the captain.
I had two people get within 150 ft of the dive boat (flying both the diver down flag and the alpha flag) I tried to raise them 3 times on VHF 16 and got no responce. I used the hailer to ask if they had their radio on. One guy gave me the thumbs up but still made no effort to comunicate with us.
I had divers in the water (including one rebreather diver) Were they good enough to tell where he was while they were dragging there anchor through the water?
Damn right I an going to get territorial.

Quote:They tried to get on the wreck without ruffling any feathers and the GLSPS crew just kept screaming and jumping up and down like little kids!

Does that sound like the way I do things?
An hour later John Nousain called (from a 1/4 mile away) to see what we were doing.
We invited him to come along side and offered him and his lady friend lunch.

If Wags had contacted us we would have let him raft off from us and even use our platform and ladder.
Good chance he would have gotten lunch too.

You weren't there and you have made up things that didn't happen.
If you want to continue this call me. You have the number.
Bob Olson

DetectorGuy · 10-14-2010, 05:28 PM,

Its threads like this that seem to drive a wedge in a relatively small dive community. But on the other hand if we just sweep it under the rug, and no one learns anything... are we really advancing the sport? This is still a sport right? Smile

I have an opinion but I wasn't there so until I know the facts I will not comment on specifics. I am confused though... I was just curious which laws apply to which divers? Are these laws on some kind of rating system? 1-5 with "1" being the laws we follow all the time. "3" being laws that we only follow when people are looking. "5" being one of those stupid laws that shouldn't even be on the books. I have broke the law many times and I am not proud of that. Most people reading this have broke the law at one time or another, after all we are human and mistakes happen.

grumpie · 10-14-2010, 05:49 PM,

Its not real hard reading, all you have to do is read the statute. [ 86b.601 scuba diving] I think that you will find your all a little wrong. Lake Superior is federal water way and I think that its not covered by state statutes so lets get on to the next pain in [...] and offending other people, who read this and think that all [....knobs.