Air compressor's

[divingbuddy]

If you had your own personal scuba air compressor w/ the cascade set up, what precautions would you need to take to fill air for your fellow divers when they are in your area. Would you need insurance,the maintenance is kepted up already, it has good air quality. Let's see what kind of idea's/  comment's you have

[ccuda]

Yes, Yes, and Yes.
Work the situation in reverse to get to your starting point.  You are responsibile for what went inside your buddys' equipment, more importantly what went inside their bodies for life-support, and what you provided them becomes concentrated at depth.  With that said, every precaution and insurance is a must, your potential liability just went through the roof. 

Buy the best you can afford, maintain it and have it inspected and tested extensively on a regular basis, dont cut corners in any way.  Simply do everything you can to avoid your EX-buddy's lawyer filing suit and taking everything you own and seeking criminal prosecution.  When the project starts to include and affect others, it definitely becomes a bigger picture.

[MAXFACTOR]

Dear Fellow Diver,  cheap air.... lol..
I would not recommend your comtemplation of "helping your fellow diver" with "free or low cost air.

LET THE DIVE SHOPS PROVIDE THIS SERVICE TO YOU.  I agree entirely with the previous response, except for getting the best equiptment.  What I mean is that you should not purchase any compressor, unless you are prepared to buy the insurance. 

Chances are, its going to very expensive and the cost should be an automatic NO GO  for you.  Many dive shops cannot afford the cost of insurance, and they are filling these things daily for pennies. 600 to 800 of them per tank. 

Then your buddies may also want Nitrox mixes,  are you going to do that too?

WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE, is that the Local Dive Shops, only charge for the gas used.  In otherwords, If you still have 1000 pounds in a 3000 PSI tank, and you want to "top it off" before your next dive, you should only have to pay for 2/3 of a normal air fill.  That would be very fair.   

Many dive shops around the country are currently doing this at present and many more have considered it. 

BUT.... my best recommendation is to leave it to the pro's at the local dive shops.  Besides, when you go in for air, you meet the wonderful staff etc.  and get to spend more money on more things.

SOME LOCAL DIVE SHOPS are not only filtering it right, many are drying the air too.  Even less chance for contamination. etc.

MAXFACTOR

[Kirk]

I couldn’t agree more.  I think all dive shops should sell gas by the cubic foot (instead of having the customer pay for gas that one has already purchased).  Gasoline stations have been working quite well under this model, I don’t see why breathing gas stations should be any different.  All the dive shops in North Florida’s Cave Country sell it that way.  And believe it or not, the gas sales is where they make their money.  - Kirk

[DiverQueen]

I'm going out on a limb here to say this is probably not a Craftsman compressor from K-Mart....

Who does the inspections and Maintenance on the compressor at the shop in Duluth?  I have to take my tanks in for annual VIP Inspections, don't compressors get the same care?
One tank that I have labeled for Nitrox I have diligently only had filled at the shop that did the O2 cleaning on it!  I know and trust that the air they put in that tank is triple filtered and compatible.

Who does Top End Liability insurance these days?  Last I recall it was Lloyd's of London.  They pretty much made sure that you would always have your home to go home to even if the fertilizer hit the ventilation device!  

[john j]

If you are going to do something like that for your buddies, my opinion is that you should have all of your buddies pitch in to buy the compressor and have them also pitch in to buy the gasses and maintenance supplies, etc.  When I say "pitch in", I don't mean that they give you money and you go buy the stuff.  I mean that if there is a part you need, that they buy it and bring it over and they install it.  Also have them buy oxygen for example and bring it over and fill their own tanks.  Have a written agreement among your group that the compressor and the equipment is a shared resource and that you all are responsible for upkeep, system design and for doing fills and that it is not a for profit venture.  Then make sure you document all the manitenance in a log book and also document all fills and gas analysis with a fill station log.  Your  friends should fill their own tanks or at least rotate people who do the filling so it isn't always you doing it.  My point is that if it is a shared resource, it must really be shared.  Anyone mixing nitrox or trimix should be certified to do so.  I would still reccommend insurance through Willis    They are a broker for Lloyds of London. I would expect insurance might cost over $1000 per year for this.  The problem is that if someone gets injured and it is due to a problem with the gas or it is even perceived that there might have been a problem with the gas, you will almost certainly get sued.  Even if you are not at all responsible, you will still have to defend yourself which could cost tens of thosands of dollars.  And consider this...your friend or his family may not sue you, but if his insurance company had to pay out for a lot of medical bills or for a life insurance claim, then your friend's insurance company will sue you, because they will want to recover their losses if they can.  Isn't America wonderful?

Regarding air quality tests, do a google search on "breathing air analysis laboratories" or something like that and you should find places that will do the analysis.

I think you might find that setting up a fill station with quality equipment is frightfully expensive, unless you can get some very special deal somehow.  You might be looking at $5k to $20k depending on what you are doing. There is more than just a basic compressor needed.  You need filters, fill whips, gauges, fittings, cylinders and the list goes on.  If you can get a RIX oil-less compressor, I would reccommend that.  No oil can get in the air and the user can do a full compressor rebuild on his own.  No machine shop required for rebuilds.  More expensive up-front cost, but at your first rebuild, you will be loving it.

I don't want to discourage you, but that's the reality of it from my viewpoint.  I do have a fill station and I'm completely "off the grid" so to speak and very happy to be that way, but I only fill my own tanks for my own use.

At times I have had discussions with folks about starting a fill station club or something like that where there is a fee to join and then there are monthly dues or whatever.  The fill station is located at some neutral location and everyone has a key.  When you need a fill you just go there and do it yourself.  On paper it looks interesting, but in order to make it work, you need a good size group of people to keep the per person cost reasonable.  Trouble is, the more people you bring in, the more problems you will have with theft, broken equipment, improper use, etc.  Or you go there expecting to get a trimix fill only to find that someone used all the helium and didn't replace it or they left a valve open and it's empty.

Well that's my opinion anyway.  Good luck with your plans if you decide to do it.

[aknelsonone]

I mentioned what other are doing for instance in Austria.
The fill station is actually right on a busy county road you can park right in front of the box. On the opposit side there is a parking lot and the lake with dive access.

Therefore the idea is out there and it works too.
I see this kind of service at a popular destination like up on the northshore.
The only challenge will be how to make the fill process "idiot proof" and provide good security.

Insurance: I am not so concerned remember Lawers are good business people too if there is nothing to gain there will be no suits. I realize too the fill process area will look different too to make all save and secure.

However as many features are in there as cost will rise and therefore no one has provided such service until now.

Andreas