Your thoughts on snorkeling and spearfishing?

[Shooter]

  Which do you think.. Does a diver with air or a diver without air have the better chance of choosing their shot or their fish?
  I ask because in one of the e-mails from the Cheif, he said the concern of the traditional angler back when they legalized spearfishing (about 20 yrs. ago) was that of spearfisherman being able to be selective (meaing, taking all the big fish)
  It wasn't found that that is what happened during their 2 year experiment before the law was implemented.. but I'd like to know what you think..
[/quote]

I do both and feel that both have their advantages. I have only speared free-diving in less than 50'. I was able to get alot closer without the noise but had less time for shot placement.I also had kookoo birds and stars circling me ;D With the tank I am able to go alot deeper and see alot more. I want to free-dive more.

[freedivernd]

well, still.. I'd like to know thoughts whether you've spearfished or not.. whether your a tree (fish) hugger or not.. everyone's got an opinion... I just want to hear them.  I'm curious what the dive shops think... I'd really like to get opinions from either dive shop personnel or owners.
Fred

[john j]

That they require you to be SCUBA "certified" seems fishy to me.  As far as I understand, there is no US or state law that requires a person to be "certified" in order to go SCUBA diving.  There is of course an established common method of getting certified through one of the various agencies, but remember that all of these agencies are self appointed and declare by themselves, without any higer level oversight, that they are fit to train divers.  This is a potential problem in my opinion because these agencies are free to invent whatever nutty certification levels they want to and self declare that we all now need these certifications.  Since they are for-profit agencies making money from these certifications, it can get out of hand.  The only control is fear that if they go to far, they will loose clients to competing agencies.   There is no state or federal process by which TDI, PADI, etc.  are licensed or granted permission to train divers.  You could just as readily start your own dive certification agency today.  It may or may not be recognized by the diving community, but it would not be illegal.   

I thus find it hard to believe that there is a law stating that you have to be certified.  If there was such a law, they would have to detail who is an allowed certification agency and what kind of certification you need.

[freedivernd]

Probably why when I suggested that I write my friend a certification from FMJ's School of SCUBA (SANS CONTAINED UNDERWATER BREATHING APPERATUS) I got quite a short reply from the Chief.. I don't think he was impressed.  But, it would be perfectly legal.. I think today I will be calling the states attorney just to see what leg I have to stand on.. as far as all the loop holes in this regulation.  If intent is 99 % of the law.. then I don't have much.. but if it isn't worded correctly.. I wonder.  Either way it needs to be fixed and I'm beginning the processes to do just that.  I don't think the game and fish wants to touch this but I'm going to force the issue.
Fred

[john j]

I'm just curious..what started all this?  I'm wondering why you ended up asking the "authorities" about this stuff.  In my experience, asking for information from these types of "authorities" is not usually a productive use of your time.

If the chief insists you need a certification, you should ask him to show you where that is written.  Perhaps you did so already.  They should have a pocket size reference book of regulations that they use when they write citations to people or for when they want to find something to cite a person for.   If this regulation really exists, I would expect it is in there and the chief should easily be able to find it.

I looked through the link to the regulations and it does not state anything about diving certifications being required for spear fishing or even for SCUBA diving for that matter, which is in agreement with my previous post-not illegal to dive if you are not certified.  If you follow the regulations that cover which fish you can spear and how/when you can spear them, catch limits, etc., it seems to me that you wouldn't get in trouble.  Do you have reason to think you would get in trouble?

Anyway, your idea to contact the state attorney sounds good.  I have contacted the MN state attorney a couple of times on non-diving issues and they were actually very helpful.  I hope ND is the same.

[freedivernd]

First line in the regulations: Underwater spear fishing is legal only from May 1 through November 30 of each fishing year. Only individuals SCUBA certified may underwater spear fish.

The reason I asked the question of the g&f is because of a friend of mine who would like to spear fish, is NOT certified, and didn't dare go when I explained to him that a certification from FMJ's School of Scuba would suffice... or even me just saying "I hereby certify you scuba".. as far as I could read in the regulations, and since they don't have a certifying agency.. or even an agency to oversee the certifying, I figured he was good to go.. he just didn't want to find out differently, so hence my communications began with the game and fish.

For myself.. I'd a liked nothing better to challenge it.
Fred

[john j]

I must have missed that line when I reviewd the regulations.

Keep us posted on how things go with the state attorney, and best of luck.

[tim]

This is how it works in ND,  Fred goes out to go freediving and spearfishing in Mud Pie Lake.  Old John is sitting out in the middle not catching anything and sees Fred swimmin and splashin around.  Old John says to him self 'what in the h-ll is that fool doin in my lake.  He motors over slowly ignoring Freds dive flag (poor boy never saw one before) and sees Fred come up with a big fish.  With steam comin out of his ears John motors over to his truck and gets on the horn with Frank at the Coot & Carp(game and fish)(Frank is also Johns cousin(everybodys related))and says theres this fool in our lake takin all the big fish, you got to do somthin.  Frank rools over to meat Fred as he is comin out of the water and says Are you a cetified scuba diver?  Fred says what difference does it make I'm not scuba diving.  Frank says "thats it I'm takin all your gear and you can ask the Judge for it."  Of course Fred will have to drive 5 hrs on a work day to go to court only to find out the date was changed to a location closer to home( I have personal experiance with that one).

Thats my opinion of ND anyway, you asked. 
Appoligies to anyone from ND who might read this.

Tim

[Clifonef]

I've found this thread enlightening, interesting, and insulting.

Enlightening in the sense that I knew little about spearfishing, other than the beings with the greatest intelligence were chasing some of the beings with the least intelligence with a modest degree of success.

Enlightening in that some among the free diving crowd have traded in the encumbrance of scuba equipment for the encumbrance of inflated egos.  How does one go so deep with such a large head?

Interesting in the sense that there are a lot of threads contained in this one topic, most of which have been developed in a respectful manner.

Insulting in that a modest stab at logic (not refuted), was met with disdain.

I'll know in the future not to make any contributions that might expose my ignorance.  I'll wait until I have a couple hundred dives to a couple hundred feet before I venture an opinion.

[Shooter]

:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

I simply ask that you at least make 1 before you venture your opinion. :-X