Pony Bottles

[LKunze]

<br>Wow...ok Pete, I agree with a lot of your points but I fail to see where online purchases or proper regulator adjustment has anything whatsoever to do with the mentioned freeflows. Read my lips..."There is no such thing as a totally freeflow proof regulator" Yes, even the ice water reknowned Poseidon regs CAN and have freeflowed before, nothing is impossible." Proper adjustment does go a long way towards preventing freeflows but nothing is impossible. Divers can overbreath regs and cause them to freeflow. I do agree that there are certain regs that shouldn't be used in cold water but there was not enough specifics mentioned to draw your conclusion. I hope you don't quit taking part in this forum because you have offered some good discussion on here and it would be a shame to see you quit because of some comments that didn't sit well with you.

[jasondbaker]

<br>I took my apeks regs in to get serviced this past week to resolve a small freeflow problem with my backup reg. I took the regs out to superior this past weekend and experienced significant freeflow problems with both regs. <br><br>Mark, your thinking just does not hold true in practice. The pony bottle provides an extra measure of safety even when you do everything "right". <br><br>BTW, I've never heard of a reg having a "warm" water setting. What does that mean in technical terms?<br>

[Markn]

This will be my last post <<<<<forever>>>>> I'm upset by some of the statements I read although sometimes there is very excellent discussions here

<br>I am sorry you feel that way. You will be missed..<br>

As for Mark, good divers never scold buddies. Anyone can abort a dive for any reason without shame or embarrasment. If your buddy is accidently too bouyant, free flows, or whatever? and goes up, where were you looking to either help or at least know where he was. You can then make the choice to either follow or watch your own personal ascent rate, saftey stop or whatever... <br>

<br>Good divers never scold buddies. Sorry but I disagree. <br>I was reeling in the penetration line and my buddy was over my right shoulder watching me. The water was cold and movements were slow and deliberate. He then had the free flow and went straight up. He should have notified me!!!! it is not for the instructor to come and inform me.<br>

Next, reg's need servicing! Period!

<br>Couldn't agree more.<br>

This stuff about numerous freeflows tells me you folks are buying improper life support for your dives or doing the cheepo internet deal where you get stuff that is not tuned and screw the warranty. Let's save a doller, OK?

<br>Sorry but I disagree. The freeflows have been from different people in different situations. I am not going to explain each and every one. As for purchasing on the internet. There are MANY reputable sites that sell equipment with warrenties. I have come across 1 in Spain and 1 in England (a little biased there I think). <br><br>Jason,<br>

I've never heard of a reg having a \"warm\" water setting. What does that mean in technical terms?

<br>BIG OOPS by me. After being in contact with my buddy that had the freeflow he was infomed (Jokingly) that it was on the warm water setting. Now having looked into this a little more. His VIVA was set wrong. He was having a little fun with me.<br>Jason, I apologise for getting it wrong

[Chris]

Also, use the equipment appropriate for the dive location. This stuff about numerous freeflows tells me you folks are buying improper life support for your dives or doing the cheepo internet deal where you get stuff that is not tuned and screw the warranty. Let's save a doller, OK? <br>

<br><br>For the record, I use a ScubaPro Mk16/G250HP purchased from a local dealership and it's known to be an excellent cold water regulator. Unfortunately sometimes things just happen. I brought it into the shop that day and they simply detuned the first stage slightly even though it was setup correctly.

[wholehawg]

In my experience more air is always a good thing especially if your talking about diving beyond recreational open water limits. You just have to weigh the cost of the extra weight, drag and of course maintenance. <br>If you rig it right after a few dives you'll probably never know the pony is there. (and there should never be enough slack to allow it to come up to hit you in the face during a giant stride. If there was it would hang about 6-10 inches below you when you were horizontal. Right?) <br><br>An additional option to doubles or a pony bottle is an H valve. I have a Steel LP 120 with and H Valve that I dove for about a year before I got my doubles. The H valve alone give you the option to control a free flow situation and with a LP 120 you should have an ample supply of air to cope with most situations (especially if your diving thirds) A plus rated LP120 you can over fill to about 3000 - 3200 giving you about 150 - 160 Cu Ft. That's almost like having double 80's in a single tank!!! And the weight and buoyancy characteristics are great. They weigh more but you carry less on your belt or BC and the weight more evenly distributed. You'll need an extra reg but the same applies to a pony. As for cost I got my tank with the valve for about $350 probably 2 or 3 times more than a pony but I think you'll get a lot more use out of this option than a pony you carry around for emergencies and if you looking to do more advanced dives this is the way I would go. <br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>

[lwright]

I almost went diving along the New Jersey coast and a spare tank and regulator are required by most dive charters along North Alantic Coast. The visibility is not very good and at deep depths you can forget about finding your buddy's spare air.

[MAXFACTOR]

seeing that the board is dead lately, I had to resort to this historical post.

Although this is a very old post, it is a timeless question.  One that I cannot for the life of me understand why there is even a question of diving without a pony.

Case in point. 
a. 
2 years ago,2004,  a local dive shop owner drowned in less then 12 feet of water.  HE GOT TANGLED UP in weeds at Forest Lake.  Now,  fortunately for him,  other divers found him within minutes of running out of air.  They pulled him ashore, and had no signs of life and obviously no pulse.  They started CPR.  He survived.  Actually making a dive the following weekend.  He is currently Jan 28 2006, in FIGI, leading a dive. 
SOLUTION.  Although he had absolutely no air left in his 80 cubic foot. IF HE HAD A 30cu ' PONY WITH HIM,  it would have given him at that depth at least 20 more minutes to get unstuck, and most likely never had completely run out of air.

b.  as far as it hitting someone in the face,  try slinging it at an angle.  ie  HIP TO CHEST. close in, never hits face, and doesn't increase drag while diving. 

c.  I too never heard of "warm water setting" on a reg. but I agree never sacrifice saving a couple of bucks for a quality reg. from a LDS.  ITS THE ONE LIFE SAVING DEVICE YOU SHOULD NOT PUT A PRICE TAG decision process on. 

CONCLUSION.
I WOULD NEVER DIVE WITHOUT A BACKUP no matter where or how shallow the dive is.  Its just not worth the risk. 
IF YOUR GONNA BUY YOUR OWN EQUIPMENT< MAKE SURE YOU BUY A PONY WITH IT AND A VERY HIGH QUALITY REG TO GO WITH IT.

Personally, if I was a shop owner, I would not sell a setup without selling a backup, or having the diver sign a wavier that he has a backup.  BUT THEN AGAIN,  I'M  STILL NOT A SHOP OWNER.

MAXFACTOR

[LKunze]

Man, you were digging Joe.  An almost 5 year old post!  FWIW, since I started this thread I should follow-up and say that while I never did invest in my own pony bottle setup while I dived singles I did get to borrow a pony setup on a couple occasions to try out.  It seemed to trim out fine and wasn't overly bulky.  I had the chance to use a 30 cubic foot tank slung like a deco bottle.  I think the pony does have it's place for single tank diving particularly in our local dive conditions.  I've seen them used in real situations, passed off to other divers that did not have them during a freeflow, etc.  It's a good system although those that have them should really practice with them.  It's not just another piece of gear that you clip off and can forget about until s**t hits the fan. Learning to unclip them, reclip them, deployment, restowing underwater etc. is key.  In the end I ended up just going to double 85's for all of my diving around here which eliminates needing a pony.  I have noticed more and more local divers diving pony rigs now though.  I think some shops do actually require pony's for their PADI deep diver specialty classes.  Not a requirement per PADI but just a shop requirement.

[LRRP02]

I can see why your not a shop owner Demanding your view on this you wouldn't have customers very long. I've used a 13 cu ft pony to see how long it would last at 55 ft and it lasted 28 minutes. Where was his buddy? Or was he one of these DIR guys I have seen at wazee that after all the gear is on and they get in the water with in minutes they are totally separated swimming their merryly way forgetting there DIR training. Did he forget to keep an eye on his spg? Nothing like getting totally weighted down with gear. All that gear sure inpresses everyone.  Divings fun go light pay attention stay with your buddy and you'll stay out of trouble.

[LKunze]

LRRPO2, what does DIR have to do with this?  ??? Nothing like putting a black eye on a thread that had some valid discussion.  :