Dive Flag Laws

[LKunze]

I'll admit myself and my buddies have been guilty of it not towing a flag on the Madeira but only when diving with a large group where there is at least one dive flag tied off on the wreck already. 

I think the issue is the added hassle of towing the flag around when doing dives to 100 feet or more and particularly when the wave action in Superior can cause a lot of tugging on the line along with increased drag at deeper depths.  It can cause more fatigue and raise your air consumption as well.

Regardless of whether I bring a flag or not to the site I always carry a lift bag/surface marker that can be shot from a safe depth prior to ascent to indicate our location.  Dive boats are going to recognize a surface marker or bag that shoots up from below the surface out of nowhere.  I doubt you are going to find any non-dive boats or fishing boats hanging out over the Madeira site. 

I do think that regardless of the amount of divers on the wreck there really should be at least one dive flag over the site to indicate divers in the water.  It may not be the legal or correct approach but that's just my opinion.

[MAXFACTOR]

ScubaDOG,  Thanks for your reply,  and certainly  as you know I have a high respect for law enforcement agencies.  With respect to BOATERS.  yes,  I too have had boaters literally right on top of my dive flag wondering what it was that was "floating across the lake" 

THEREIN LIES THE BIGGEST PROBLEM.  Boaters (which includes any driver of a boat) should be required to sign a doc. that says he understand what a DIVE FLAG FLOAT OR MARKER IS and How far they must maintain distance etc. 

MY BIGGEST OBJECTION is... the number of divers under a flag.  thats it . 

I appreciate what you do and how you help us divers.

Maxfactor

[SCUBA Dog]

Max,

I know nothing about your respect for law enforcement agencies, as I have never met or spoke with you (unless I know you and am unaware of your true identity). However, I appreciate you saying that and had no reason to believe otherwise. Someone tipped off Deano and blew my cover (the investigation continues) or I would not have mentioned my line of work, unless it was relevant to a specific topic. Doesn't really matter to me if it is known or not. I just don't want people thinking that they can or can't, should or shouldn't post something because of it. Enough of that.

I don't know that boaters signing a piece of paper would resolve the problem. A piece of paper doesn't generally prevent people from doing anything. However, I think you are on the right track. I think an active campaign to educate boaters certainly would be a step in the right direction. After all, with the exception of youth operators, there really is no required education or license required to be a recreational boater. All you need is a boat and a set of keys. I would venture to guess that there are a fair number of people who buy a boat or use a friend's boat and never even crack open the boating guide or statutes. So they are not familiar with the "rules of the road" for boat operation, let alone the SCUBA related issues that apply.

As stated in my earlier post, I couldn't agree more with the single flag issue, if the group is diving as a group. If they dive as a group and the split into smaller subgroups, there could be an argument for more than one flag. The shops that tie multiple flags together for a large group really don't accomplish anything (other than compliance with the law - and I applaud their efforts to do that) that couldn't be done with one flag (in my opinion). I think your idea to have dive shop owners get together to discuss and come up potential law changes (and the justifications for the changes) has got merit. They could then have petitions in their shops for divers to review and sign. After that, present them and lobby for change. I am sure there are specific protocols for this, but that is outside my area of expertise.

99

[JBPearson]

What about lobbying for the DNR (perhaps funded by others if needed) to place dive flag awareness signs at public landings much like the invasive species signs they currently have up.  I'm sure some boaters would put us in that category anyway. ;D

[DiverQueen]

But that means you expect people to read and comprehend what the signs say....Unless the heading is "Free Beer" do you really think they would pay attention??  ???

[SCUBA Dog]

JB

That certainly could have some benefit. I think that could be worthwhile and would more than likely reach more boaters than what is being done now.

99

[wtdrm]

Well D.Q. How about this. Put up that sign that says free beer, With a dive flag under .then have the flag laws posted under it.
Bait and switch. People do it all the time. Unethical as heck.

[DiveCaptDean]

[/quote]

What about lobbying for the DNR (perhaps funded by others if needed) to place dive flag awareness signs at public landings much like the invasive species signs they currently have up.  I'm sure some boaters would put us in that category anyway. ;D
[/quote]

What a great idea~!!

[DiveCaptDean]

Via my "through the grapevine" sources, i have been notified that after sleep deprivation, many hours of water torture, electrocution, the removal or fingernails, and ethyl chloride, Grumpie did in fact..reluctantly plead guilty to the charges of "notifying dean of Scuba Dogs tru indentity".  How could he not after such torture. 

My heart goes out to you Grumpie for having to endure such procedures.  I applaud you as a man for being able to hold out as long as you did.

Deano

[grumpie]

I was chased through the parking lot and told I was going to be busted for pot hole jumping.