Torpedo DPV

[arcFlash]

It looks like the Mako is my favorite but then I still have some questions.

It shows two handles so if John J is correct, in that, adding one throws off the balance, do they make a OEM t-bar? Two handles isn't ideal.

It list 120 as max time, can I assume that's a NiMH battery I can't afford like the x-scooter? That's the burn I'm looking for even if it's not fast.

Last one: Is buying new just silly? It's almost double but then I know it's condition and history. I don't see a lot listed and they look heavily used. My fear is I'll save a $1000 on used then have to replace parts before I get a season out of it. That's no bargain to me.

I think I'll order the Mako new unless someone gives me more information. I would think with the popularity of Mako, someone is buying new.

Thanks everyone.

[john j]

I haven't used the Mako, so I can't answer all of your questions, but here is what I think...

If it shows 120 minutes as the maximum time, I would scale that back by 10 to 15% to estimate what you will get in reality. 

All batteries have to be replaced eventually and can be damaged if the user doesn't take care of them.  Things like overcharging, deep discharging or leaving them in a discharged state for too long can shorten the life of any battery.  While a certain used scooter may look nice physically, it could have a weakened battery so that is another problem that you might run into.  It's probably a safe assumption that the battery in any used scooter is not at 100% capacity any more, so you should factor that into your cost analysis.  The battery may still be good, but it won't be as good as a brand new battery.  If the used scooters you are looking at are 5 years old or more, the batteries are certainly not at 100%, especially if they are lead acid batteries.  Lead acid batteries are cheap, but they don't last long.

Buying anything used is a gamble.  Maybe you get a good one, maybe not.  Sometimes you get a great deal and sometimes you get hosed.  At least with a new one, you would expect it to be good and there is a warranty. 

I am very particular (some say I am too particular) about equipment and how it is maintained.  I almost never buy anything used unless I know that the seller took very good care of it. 

Keep us posted on what your final decision is and how it works out.

[Kirk]

I personally would not buy a new Mako.  I think it is a nice scooter, but at a retail price of about $2600, I would instead save the additional $1100 for something like the Silent Submersion UV-26 (or of course a comparable scooter), which has a deeper depth rating, a better handle, a better clutch, a rewound motor, and a longer battery life.  Though I have no hard evidence to prove so, I suspect that after a few years, and few hundred dives, the Mako would probably depreciate at least half it’s value, where as something like a lead acid battery Silent Submersion (or similar) would probably only drop in value by a few hundred dollars. 

Granted the mid sized Silent Submersion UV-26 has its drawbacks.  It is heavy.  Makes it a bit unpleasant for places like the Madeira and Feigh Pit, and places in Florida like Manatee Springs Cave (places you have to carry the scooter on your shoulder a bit of a distance to the water); but it drives like a dream.  Very forgiving.  Note that I’ve only driven two scooters, the Silent Submersion UV-26 and the Silent Submersion N-19.  The N-19 was nice, but even with lower land weight (which of course comes with a much higher battery replacement cost, due to NIMH); I did not like it as much because of the excessive torque. 

To put things in non-diver terms, when I was a teenager, my grandmother had two cars, which I would often borrow.  One was ’65 Mustang (which she bought new and probably only drove to church, the grocery, and the pharmacy), and the other was a mid 1970s model Caprice Classic.  The Mustang was great for cruising around town and impressing girls, but the Caprice Classic was what I always picked when I wanted to take a long ride on gravel roads outside of town.  It drove like a dream, and was very forgiving.  -  Kirk

[arcFlash]

Kirk, That's been a big nag to me as well. I keep thinking I don't want to spend $4k on a scooter but that is the sweet spot. I'd most likely be happy with any scooter we've talked about as they seam to be priced in-line with function. If I don't pay much I don't get much (Torpedo) but it's fair for what it does. $3800 for an SS is a lot but then it's a totally different product.

A new Mako doesn't feel right priced but then used is a gamble I don't want. It's the right scooter for me but the price doesn't feel right. I almost ordered one this morning but I pulled back. That means I most likely will change my searching to a used 'Full size' and then decide if that's too much machine for my wants (lets be honest, I don't NEED one).

I didn't expect this to be so difficult. Maybe I should just get the torpedo and be happy I have a scooter at all.

[LKunze]

For me the biggest factor in not purchasing a scooter is the lack of dive buddy's available that own scooters to dive with.  None of my regular dive buddy's own scooters so if I were to buy one it would really be a waste of money.  I'm not really into solo diving.  A scooter sure would be fun though and would allow you to explore many areas of lakes that you just cannot get to on a dive otherwise.  For local diving mainly shore diving it seems the route Kirk went with the full size UV-26 lead acid battery SS scooter might be a good option.  It's $250 cheaper than the N-19 NiMH battery scooter, has a longer burn time and handles better.  Sure, for a sight like the Madeira it would be a drag to haul down to the dive site and wouldn't be ideal for boat dives but if you think about how close the majority of the shore dive accesses are it probably wouldn't be so bad overall.  Here is the link to the SS line-up of scooters. 

[Dan G]

Lonnie,

you should just buy two scooters ;D

[Kirk]

Gamble …… gamble ….. gamble …….  Hey, you just gave me an idea.  Clearly, you’re reluctant to spend a huge amount of money right now for a new  scooter (and I don’t blame you, it is a lot of money).  And, you are reluctant to buy a scooter, which may flood or otherwise not work as it is intended.  You might want to buy a mid-priced used scooter from someone who knows enough about them to make sure they are good to go.  There is guy down in North Florida.  His name is Steve Gamble (see the connection….).  I think his company is called Gamble Scuba.  His main line of business is repairing dry suits (kind of like that guy up in Brainerd), but he also, I believe, has been known to fix and modify scooters.  He might have one for sale.  There is another guy, also in the North Florida area, who runs a company called DPV Repair, who may also be able to set you up with a used, yet checked out and maintained Mako, Tekna, or similar.  - Kirk

[arcFlash]

Right, the wife and I were talking tonight (over beers on the deck) about only having one. That's not a huge deal as she doesn't dive a lot ether way. Having a scooter probably wouldn't sweeten the deal that much. LKunze is also saying what I kind of meant by not wanting to spend $$$$ on a scooter. I don't mind solo but it's the last option before not diving. Having 3K into a scooter to dive by myself just isn't all that appealing if you consider you're all alone in a sad kind of way.

So Lonnie we can get a couple of x-scooters and wave to Dan on shore!

Back to the problem, Money is a consideration but honestly I have the money, it's the value that trips me up. I don't want to buy too much scooter or too little. I already have a dive style that works for me. I just want to go for a nice long dive and not have to kick everywhere.

Maybe 2 torpedo is all I need if the option is too SS at $7,600. Honestly I enjoyed the torpedo so maybe I can live with the burn time and the fact that I can buddy dive.

Kirk, I was going to contact Richard and see if he know of someone.

[LKunze]

Yeah, that would be a little out of my price range Dan...now if you want to buy one then I could probably be convinced to get one too.

[Dan G]

I will have to wait on the DPV, if buy now and it's slower than my buddies or has shorter run time, it still could be a solo dive or my buddy might have to tow me back.

I have only dove the Torpedo so I can't speak of the others. The Torpedo switch was not much fun, but I'm sure something could be done about that with a clip or something. I think it being nose heavy and what seemed like a lot more than 2 lbs  negative were bigger issues. Again, I'm sure some field mods could improve, but not perfect those problems.

I only carried it down the hill at the Madeira once, which really was enough that I might think twice before doing that again. Of course I'm sure Steve could come up with a nice cart

Still, great fun and can cover lots of ground. On the down side, I though I relaxed too much using them and got cold faster.

Dan