The Argonauts John or Jean Francois ???????

[Whightbread]

I got Naui certified in 1983 through the argonauts in St. Paul. I need to know what the owner john's last name is or what his instructor number was. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks, Dylan

[Terry]

                  Hi Dylan,
                                I first started diving with the Agonautes in Nov of 1980, and did my masters class with them. The Argonauts was owned by Jean Francois Aubineau. One of his main instructors (at that time you referenced) was John Whortenbury, known as JW to everyone there, he was tall and lean, JFA,  not so much. The instructors numbers I have on my certs. from them are  NAUI # 2581 for JFA and PADI # 9912 for JW. Hope this helps you out.      Terry

[Whightbread]

Thanks Terry that will help a lot

[eelpout]

What a blast from the past...University Ave. St. Paul. Zodiacs at Sve's place on the North Shore.

[Terry]

                                     Ya, those were some good times, we stayed at Rags, (the late Ragvold Sve, Rags was a commercial fisherman, mostly lake trout, I recall) halfway between Gooseberry SP and Split Rock SP, upstairs at his fish house, not at all glamorous but super reasonable, warmed by his antique cast iron wood stove at night, with the zodiacs tied to Rags dock, right out front. I miss those days.
                                     If I could throw out an opinion,  I think what made BOTH the Argonauts and the late Jerry Provost's dive shop, Vets Salvage Diving, (on Chicago Ave)  interesting, successful shops, was they were both in old buildings, filled with stuff from the bottom, cool stuff to drop in and see. They were not the new mall stores like most of today's shops, with NOTHING, or next to it, from the bottom, and BOTH shops knew how to throw a party, ( THANKS Sharron Provost for the cake and beer from Jerrys annual birthday bash, at which Jerrys age as a percentage was deducted off the bill on gear, until Jerry got old enough he squealed he wasn't making any money) Don't get me wrong, they both would be selling stuff during parties but that wasn't the main reason for being there, there were things to see, stories to be told and people showed up, just for the socializing. I've never been in retail (thankfully) other then a short stint working for Wild Bill Hilton (Scuba Daddies)  but I think the more often you could bring people "thru the door" and the more people you could bring, "thru the door", the more sales you could have, regardless of the reason they showed up. I mean seriously, I have more cool antiques/anchors/old bottles/pictures/ lures/junk (ok that last one stung a little), then the combined sum of every dive shop in the cities. As an example, my basement bathroom is crowded with old ice chisels, anchors, bottles, pics covering all four walls, lures hanging from the swag lamps, (ok, it does need a remodel) but I've also heard from lots of women who used it during parties, "that is the coolest bathroom I've ever sat down in" guys don't look around, as much, (PM me if you need that one explained) but why do shops not have at LEAST on area on their shops dedicated (or mixed in with gear)  to cool stuff like that? It adds so much character, Aubineau's shop, the Argonauts that kind of stuff COVERED the walls, and in spots, the ceiling. Shop owners don't BS me, NONE of you have that much inventory, that you don't have the space, all of you have room. Quit JUST selling stuff (classes and gear) and make your shops more interesting to new divers, what they might see or find and you'll have, more divers. Shop owners and everyone else, feel free to add your two psi, I think Dylan has his info, so were not really jacking his thread.                           

                                                                           TRINITY

[grumpie]

Terry come out to little long lake on tue nite

[arcFlash]

As long as Terry jacked the thread...

If you look for a root cause (and I didn't know Aubineau or Provost) it would likely be limited local diving. So many divers are brainwashed into thinking Square Lake has something to offer. For a training tub I'll agree you need the place but past that, more has to be said about local resources. Terry and I have probably been in more lakes then most anyone and the vis is reasonable in many. That is, most dive shops only dive with students and in Square Lake, even ice is held at Square and that's a terrible place for ice class.

I understand that 'fun dives' don't offer any ROI so that's not the answer. If shops collected information on sites it would be a reason to stop in and ask about where to go. If shops helped divers find shore dives and offered some intel and got a dive report back it would be a valuable resource. I say this from experience in that I was confused long ago about why we could only dive Square and Elmo (by boat) when we had so many lakes. Everyone I asked about were to go told me Square or Perch. You can shore dive about anything if you look for an entry and pull a flag(s), use a compass and make every effort to avoid boat traffic.

Lastly, everyone is so fixated on visibility. You need about 8-10 feet for a good dive. With the chance of catching hell from other... I just got back from Bonaire and you may already know I didn't care for it all that much. So I told my brother "I'm not seeing anything." He said, stop looking for big stuff and start looking real close for all the small stuff. I said, then why did I come all this way for 80ft vis if I spend the whole time looking for small stuff within 2 feet? People talk about vis but don't need it, that's very odd. I would rather be the first diver to scour the bottom of some brown lake than wait my turn to see a scorpion fish.

[jasondbaker]

The beauty of mnscuba is that we can collect and share knowledge from hundreds of local divers.  We can distribute that knowledge much more effectively than any individual store.  The active divers on this forum are probably doing more local dives than the majority of local dive shop owners.  I think 10-20 years ago dive shops were the central hub of knowledge sharing for local divers.  That's no longer the case.  And I don't think that's a bad thing.  Times change.

Lastly, everyone is so fixated on visibility. You need about 8-10 feet for a good dive. With the chance of catching hell from other... I just got back from Bonaire and you may already know I didn't care for it all that much. So I told my brother \"I'm not seeing anything.\" He said, stop looking for big stuff and start looking real close for all the small stuff. I said, then why did I come all this way for 80ft vis if I spend the whole time looking for small stuff within 2 feet? People talk about vis but don't need it, that's very odd. I would rather be the first diver to scour the bottom of some brown lake than wait my turn to see a scorpion fish.

Greater visibility allows you to see more structure and track your dive buddy more easily.  It helps to minimize disorientation and decreases anxiety in less experienced divers.  It offers greater opportunities for underwater photographers.  I've done plenty of dives in 3-5ft vis.  I'd rather not do those kinds of dives anymore because I can just as easily find 10-20ft vis elsewhere. 

Bonaire is all small stuff.  That's not the place to go for big animals. Most divers go to Bonaire for the vibrant and diverse marine life.  Some divers might be interested in looking for anchors or bottles on the bottom of a lake. But that's not the case for the vast majority of divers.  That's what makes the sport great.  Everyone can pursue their own unique interests.

[arcFlash]

That sounds fair. I don't like anything less than 10 as well. MNScuba is great but I didn't get the address from a shop and I still go to my LDC and ask if they've gotten any stories lately. I give them my reports. The internet is very helpful but face to face is so much better.

It's all about perspective and where you live and I thank god I'm not a 'swamp logger' I think people get this impression that local is rubbish and never give it a fair try. That's all. I know my wife likes blue water better but she will dive local just for the fun of diving and many can't get over the color and don't try.

[DetectorGuy]

These days getting info from the dive shop is like stopping at a gas station during a road trip to ask for directions. Sure it still works, but it is a thing of the past. Its like reading a newspaper... Yesterdays news. I like the local dive shop in theory, but they are coming from a different mindset than me. Dive shops today are all about new divers and selling new gear. They promote the clear water to instill confidence in these new divers. The dive shops wouldn't promote the lakes with less than stellar visibility because they want these new divers to enjoy themselves by not having to deal with the challenges of murky water. The happier they can keep these new divers... the more new gear they can sell them in a short time frame. If the new divers get told that this XYZ lake has 4'-5' viz, but has really cool things to see on the bottom, The new divers may get the heebie jeebies and not dive in the local lakes or not dive anymore. The newer technology of digital cameras hasn't helped this promotion of clearer lakes. Seems like everyone with a set of flippers has an underwater digital camera, and taking good photos in poor viz is challenging. So the dive shops continue to lead these newbie lemmings to the cliff called Square or Perch or somewhere in the Carribbean where the water is 15' plus visibility for financial reasons.

I am kind of a newbie myself with only 197 dives under my weight belt, so take this for what its worth. I think its not how far you can see, but what you can see when you get there. I suppose if I was more of a world traveler I would be spoiled by the gin clear water. Looking at it from the other end of the spectrum, if you have dove in the zero visibility with gnarly entanglements, everything else like 3' viz looks pretty good. Besides its the lower viz that keeps most divers out of most lakes, and more things to see for more people like me.

John