Gear choices for OW

[jasondbaker]

Lonny, the agency will probably look at how changing training standards may impact future diving related injuries. For example, will having to donate the primary reg (take it out of the mouth) lead to an increase in accidents? They will want to study the issue. Heck, from their perspective the current system works just fine so why go through the expense of changing it.

Now, let's say you start teaching that a long hose is the best way to share air. A year prior to that change in teaching standards a person was injured while sharing air using the "old" methods. Can the injured diver sue the agency for not teaching them the best way to share air? I'm not a lawyer so I don't know.

[LKunze]

Interesting point. I think though that a better approach would be to make the divers aware of both gear configurations and train them in both ways regardless of which way is "better". Ultimately it's the divers responsibility to know their buddy's gear configuration prior to the dive and that can change from dive to dive. Most divers aren't going to have the same buddy on every dive. Obviously all divers are not PADI trained so PADI ideally should account for these differences in their training I think. I doubt it will happen though.

[DRE]

"Ultimately it's the divers responsibility to know their buddy's gear configuration prior to the dive and that can change from dive to dive."

Ultimately you only dive with people who have the exact same gear setup (ie everything in the exact same spot, attached the same way - I'm not talking about brand names) so that you never have to go over where something is before the dive, because you already know. (Notice how much time people on a diveboat spend their time tying to figure out where their new buddy's octo goes, etc. Now try to imagine trying to remember that when the shit really hits the fan!!) It makes your diving easier, safer and much more relaxed.

[LKunze]

In a perfect world DRE. Unfortunately everyone I dive with doesn't configure their gear the same way as I do. If the diver is good and someone I can trust I'm not going to turn them down to dive just because they aren't configured with a long hose setup. Strict DIR guys would label me a stroke I'm sure but I could care less.

[Chris]

Real world situations though...

What percent would you guess dive exactly (gear configuration) like you do? What are the chances that every diver is going to have the same configuration?

Maybe an easier question... What percent would you want to guess dive 'the standard way' and what percent dive 'the DIR way'? I'm going to say that the vast majority dive 'the standard way' which is basically anything goes. Your chances are small of having identical configurations if you dive with anyone outside your normal dive buddies. Even so, there are really only a couple options that are going to make a difference....

What reg do they donate and where is it located. I don't see that being a huge area to misunderstand... Ask before you dive, better yet... practice it once at the beginning of a dive, it only takes a minute.

[DRE]

I'd say 99% of the people I dive with dive the same way I do. Mainly that is because most of my diving is technical anyway, and I would never hit the water with anyone I don't know or trust. Secondly, I do understand the numbers argument. However, what do you prefer? The discomfort of change or the annoyance of status quo. Some of my current dive partners were not holistic Hogarthian (or DIR) at all when I first met them. However, I talked a lot to them about the benefits of my system, they changed (sometimes drastically, sometimes gradually) their approach to diving and would never ever go back to the way they dove before.
I'd be more than happy to go diving with people who aren't DIR if they're willing to change. If they're not interested in the things I do, I won't waste my time in the water with them.

As for the out of air situation, there is no excuse for sloppy behaviour, in the water or out of the water, and the sloppy way not only can (that's an understatement) but will kill you if things go wrong. Eliminating possible failure areas, such as octo balls and all the rest of the hopeless contraptions, will save you when it comes down to it. Of course, for PADI you can't even mention that diving can kill you or you fail the IE, but there is huge difference between what does go wrong on your average dive and what can go wrong.

[jasondbaker]

I would say that 50% of my dives this past year were with someone using a Hogarthian setup. I consider that an improvement since it was 0% all the years before. If I convert more buddies that percentage will continue to go up.

I think the real challenge is trying to find a buddy on warm weather dive vacations.

[FMT]

While I dive H2 (or holistic hogarthian) I think its
important to look beyond just hose config and such to
a point made by DRE, that of diving with persons you
know and trust, be they H2, Dir, or whatever.
Yes it does make things easier when you are config'd
and trained the same way but it isn't an absolute.
It is situation dependant also. Doing a fish and coral
dive in 78F 200ft vis at 60ft is a world away from doing
a trimix dive to 200ft in 20ft vis at 43F and my choice
in dive buddies narrows majorly from the former to the
latter. Also on H2/Dir gear, my primary dive buddy
just returned from Cayman Brac having dove with bp/
harness/sta (single tank adapter) and he said it
worked wonderfully and drew few stares. I think you
will begin to see this more and more.
Todd

[beeger]

Speaking as FMT's buddy who just returned from Brac, I can say that the single tank/backplate/long hose setup worked just as well there as it has for me locally. It took a bit of explaining to the dive guides/boat crew at first, but they quickly caught on to the concepts. I enjoy explaining the system to people, as well as fielding their questions. While in Brac, none of my diving buddies were configured with a long hose or backplate. However, and this is a big however, these are people that I dive with regularly. Even though their system was different than mine, I felt fine being with them given the environment (Todd's example of simple, warm water, "pretty fish-and-coral" dives). Plus I know these people: I dive with them, I know their gear, I know when it was last serviced, I know how they behave underwater, etc..

For me diving the same configuration for both technical and recreational outings makes A LOT of sense. Things are always the same: I know where stuff is, and I can practice consistent skills. I would not do any of the more aggressive dives I do locally (wreck penetration, "technical" dives) without someone configured in the Hogarthian/DIR manner. DRE's posts above explains this point nicely. The more aggressive the dive, the more critical this issue becomes. If something goes wrong you won't have time to "remember" anything ... you will need to act and act quick, almost without thinking. To have an effective and timely response to a problem underwater, you need to practice. If people are configured the same, then you can practice the same solutions to a given set of problems. This greatly simplies things when a real event happens. Hopefully, one day, all my buddies will have the configuration that FMT and I are using. For now it works okay because I do far more dives with FMT than with anybody else.

It's good to see conversations like this going on. I applaud Scuba Dive & Travel for their recent announcement.

[FMT]

Just to echo the thread forming here: even though beeger was diving with people config'd otherwise he KNEW and TRUSTED them and their gear and their training etc.

I think that is the take home message folks.

With the variety of dive shops and buddy lists etc available locally one should have no problem finding people that one can get to know and trust what ever "style" of gear or training you prefer. The biggest problem I see is if you go on a diving vacation w/o buddies. Even then there are internet forums that might help you solve the problem.
Todd

Now I just have to work on my Georgisms!