DIR

[LKunze]

It wasn't Rich that I was referring to. During my Nitrox training at GUDC there was something they disagreed with on Deco Stops and I don't recall exactly what it was. I am NOT a tech diver myself nor have I taken a GUE course so keep that in mind. I was just stating what I had heard. When I briefly spoke with Rich last summer he said he agreed with a lot of DIR and disagreed on some things. We'll leave it at that. I didn't mean to offend you man.

[DRE]

"Other than my Weezle undies all of my gear passed the scrutiny of a couple of the DIR gods. So Halcyon is not the only choice.

JoelW


Dir Gods???????????
Are these guys walking on water or something, or are they reincarnated strokes who found the light, got stoned to death, resurrected from the bottom of the ocean and came back with a vengeance, slaughtering the impure????

Or do you mean they're just accomplished divers who are also instructors?
Lighten up, dude, they're mere mortals like the rest of us who get as bent as anybody else when they f*** up.

PS: I'm not at all in a pissing contest with the "topdogs" - in fact I know quite a few of them and they're very down to earth guys - they'll laugh themselves into a stroke (pun intended) when I tell them they're being referred to as gods.

[LKunze]

DRE, by the way welcome to the board. You seem to be a tech diver. Hopefully you can contribute some of your wisdom on tech diving here, particularly in the Advanced Discussions forum. We don't have too many tech divers on board here and it would be nice to hear more discussions on that stuff. I've thought about taking Advanced Nitrox and Deco Procedures through TDI. Any thoughts on TDI's training compared to say GUE Tech 1? Just curious I guess.

[DRE]

It wasn't Rich that I was referring to. During my Nitrox training at GUDC there was something they disagreed with on Deco Stops and I don't recall exactly what it was. I am NOT a tech diver myself nor have I taken a GUE course so keep that in mind. I was just stating what I had heard. When I briefly spoke with Rich last summer he said he agreed with a lot of DIR and disagreed on some things. We'll leave it at that. I didn't mean to offend you man.

You didn't offend me at all. I just wanted to indicate to you that at SD&T some people do know about doing proper deco. If you'd like some more info you should contact them, or if you have any specific questions you can always email me at DRE@cavediver.net.

[DRE]

The main difference with the GUE program is that they do offer normoxic trimix in their tech 1, which obviously the TDI Adv nitrox/deco procedures doesn't. With GUE you'll have guaranteed a DIR approach to diving, with TDI it'll depend on the instructor. That's maybe the beauty (and downfall) of TDI, that they give the instructor leeway in their approach. My biggest recommendation is to talk to a variety of instructors and see whom you're most comfortable with. Email me privately for instructor recommendations.

[LKunze]

You didn't offend me at all. I just wanted to indicate to you that at SD&T some people do know about doing proper deco. If you'd like some more info you should contact them, or if you have any specific questions you can always email me at DRE@cavediver.net.
[/quote]
Cool thanks. And to clarify, I should have been more specific in that I wasn't suggesting that GUDC or SD&T weren't teaching properly because they weren't DIR. I was just stating that there were things that they disagreed with on DIR. I'm sure both shops are very qualified in what they teach. They both have excellent reputations in tech diving.

[JoelW]

The sarcasm was good, but it gets away from the point. I should have said demi-gods. 'Cuz when you get right down to it, they are the ones who are defining what DIR is. And if you want to play in the DIR pool they are going to tell you how to play. People can take that however they want, but it is the truth.

What people who are interested in DIR need to do is find a class to take. Second hand information never plays as well as the original.

What will be interesting long term is if GUE can hold it's instructors in line. Otherwise there will be regional as well as personal variations in what is taught, just like TDI.

JoelW

[DRE]

Joel,

these variances are already happening, I agree not to the extent as with TDI (thank God for that). As for playing with these guys, everything happens in the water, not online nor on paper. Again, there are people out there who are - let's call it: expanded Hogarthian, or holistic Hogarthian - without ever having taken a GUE class (in fact, some of these guys taught the GUE instructors their open water and cave classes). Does that mean they're not DIR. Maybe if you're stuck in terminology or look at C-cards, but that's not what diving to me is about.

[JoelW]

I don't think that I am stuck on terminology, I think that others are the ones with the issues. You know, diving is a bit of an odd duck in a lot of ways. It really is one of the few activities that I can think of where there aren't a fair number diverse, well-established schools of practice. So along comes a group, more or less codifies what has been happening into a single form, gives it a name guaranteed to annoy people and lots of people get peeved. Who cares where the origins of DIR are. I am sure that there were a lot of people out there that were doing large parts of the philosophy. Yeah for them. They should have taken what they did and organized it so that it could be applied to others. Are they DIR? Well, if what they do is compared to what is being established as DIR and they don't match up, then no, they are not DIR. Are they diving safely in a well organized manner? Yes. But that was not the question. That is similar to asking if someone is doing Aikido when they are studying Tae Kwon Do. Both styles get you someplace, but they don't get you there the same way.

What comes out of GUE is a school of training that can be replicated on a larger scale and benefit a lot more divers, ie. safer divers. But you raised a good point, do you have to take a GUE course to be DIR. For a lot of more experienced tech divers, probably not. They are probably already doing lot of the steps anyway and can recognize the subtleties. But, most of the people asking DIR questions don't appear to have that level of experience and you're right, it isn't going to happen on the net.

So in the end what may have been a better move was to name it something else, but it's too late now.

JoelW

[LKunze]

One thing that I find annoying is that some divers have used DIR to form their own sort of self righteous clicky "we are better than you" groups. I've seen so many people use DIR as a status thing especially on other internet forums etc. Almost like a competion thing. "We are DIR...bow to us."
Now I am not bringing DIR down, I like what I've seen and researched of it so far. The thing that bothers me is that some divers that embrace DIR are actually giving it a bad name. Divers not totally familiar with DIR that just want to learn more about it often times get treated like they are stroke morons and in turn get turned off by DIR.
Just something I've seen often, particularly on internet forums. I think DIR would be accepted more and more people would look to learn and take the courses if not for crap like this going on.