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DiveCaptDean · 03-31-2008, 10:33 AM,

I found the dive flag laws rather interesting..

I thought it odd that i can snorkel without flying a flag..i feel that snorkeling is far more dangerous than diving when it comes to surface boat traffic..one of the reasons to carry a flag in the first place. I am not saying one should have to drag a flag when snorkeling..but it also may not be a bad idea....or....rather than fly a flag that most people dont recognize....how about we just mandate that when a diver is at the surface, that they inflate a lift bag or sausage..

Also..according to this statute, a charter operator cannot have more than 4 divers in the water at one time..unless they lay out surface markers at no more than 150ft intervals...I dont recall learning anything about that one when i was studying to get my captains license..

Also..and this ones being pretty picky..but how many of your dive flags or floats are 30" tall?...my innertube float falls in the 24"-26" range...

SCUBA Dog · 03-31-2008, 01:15 PM,

I would agree that snorkeling, particularly after ascending after a surface dive would be more dangerous. Some sort of flag or float would make sense.

I think you are reading too much into the statute regarding a group of divers. I have included subdivision 2 of the statute below, which addresses group diving. I don't see anything limiting a charter operator to four divers unless they set out surface markers. My interpretation of that subdivision would be for special events involving a group of divers in the same area (where multiple people dragging a flag around would be a tangle / safety hazard). What comes to mind would be events hosted by a LDS, such as Smith Diving's Treasure Dive or Underwater Pumpkin Carving Contest. They set up a perimeter of dive flags and keep the event activities and divers within that area. Unless you found something more specific elsewhere I don't think Subdivision 2 applies to charter boat operators.

Subd. 2. Group diving. (a) Not more than four divers may dive under one flag.
(b) If a group of divers is operating in a contained area, the perimeter must be marked and be
outside of the normal area of navigation. The markings shall consist of the official diver's flag and
be placed on the perimeter of the diving area at intervals not exceeding 150 feet.

Being that you mentioned it, I knew the 30" requirement was in the statute and was curious, but never actually measured my flags. So you motivated me to check the stats. Here is the Tale of the Tape. My inner tube model float has a flag stick that measures 37" from the bottom of the stick to the top of the flag. With it inserted in the bracket I would guess it would still be well above the 30" requirement. My flag with the styrofoam float over the stick (with the float in the highest point on the stick) from the bottom of the float to the top of the flag - 37", from the top of the float to the top of the flag - 26" and from the middle of the float to the top of the flag - 32". The actual height above the water could certainly vary as this one is easily pulled under. I do not have one of yellow inflatable models that say diver below on the side and has a flag mounted on top. Those always look short to me, but I have never measured one. In any event, I think the 30" requirement is one of those statutes on the books that is rarely if ever enforced.

99

SCUBA Dog · 03-31-2008, 01:22 PM,

One more note. The statute does not specifically exempt ice diving from the requirement. ???

DiveCaptDean · 03-31-2008, 02:01 PM,

Hey Dog-
Other than my reading into the entire statute too much,( which is intentional as its fun to do sometimes)..i would disagree with you on the multiple divers portion...I would think that the reason they want to limit the amount of divers diving under one flag..is the same reason they expect you to stay within 50 horizontal feet of the flag...to keep people together within that boundary....if you have more divers under the flag..its harder to keep them within the 50ft limit. At least thats what i think is the reason. The law is pretty clear here..with no gray whatsoever....a maximum of 4 divers under each flag. Now keep in mind...I am not at all worried about this as a captain. As it would not be enforced in that way. This is not a coast guard rule and the coast guard governs the waters that i frequent. But on an interesting side note.....the coast guard does not have specific laws governing captains and their activities..i mean..the coast guard mandates that you have a captains license..that license limits the amount of passengers you can have on your vessel as well as the size of the vessel..it does not tell you what services you can provide...also...if i was approached by a coast guard vessel...with a crew that had someone piss in their cheerios..and i was only flying the red diver down flag...i could get in a lot of hot water...this flag is not the correct flag to fly with divers in the water..according to them............the laws are loose everywhere..and unfortunately their are left to the interpretation of the person with the badge at that time...

SCUBA Dog · 03-31-2008, 02:19 PM,

Agreed on the 4 divers per flag. Very specific with no gray area. I was referencing the part of the statute that refers to a group of divers operating in a contained area and the requirement to mark the perimeter with dive flags not farther than 150 ft. apart. I did not see any spcific reference to charter operators. However, as you noted the laws are loose and open to interpretation. Anything is possible depending on whose interpretation it is and what they had poured over their breakfast cereal on any given day. It would be nice if you could apply common sense in these situations, but that certainly is not uniform either.

DiveCaptDean · 03-31-2008, 02:39 PM,

I guess this is a case where we will all have to agree to ....AGREE!!!

SCUBA Dog · 03-31-2008, 02:48 PM,

Agreed!

DiveCaptDean · 03-31-2008, 05:33 PM,

Wow...that didnt go so bad....Heck i didnt even know you wore a badge until after my last post :o

Wink

SCUBA Dog · 03-31-2008, 06:24 PM,

Why would you expect that it wouldn't go well???

DiveCaptDean · 03-31-2008, 08:15 PM,

Uh oh..here comes that reverse psychology stufff....jk

I have a couple of friends that are local cops..two that are St. Louis Cty deputies..one conservation officer..and one that is a BCA Agent. I am quite accustomed to giving them shit...during our conversation..law enforcement agencies were named...Im just suprised that with my big mouth that i didnt say something stupid..(purely in jest) and have it mis-interpreted.

Now that i know your occupation..it will be interesting to get your persepective on topics of the future. Only one of the guys i know locally is a diver..but a new one...the other cop/ divers are all in Milwaukee..i dont speak to them much.