ice diving harness question

[racer17m]

I know it is "recommended" that ice divers wear a harness vs. clipping up to their BCD.  I was just wondering from the ice divers out there what are they practicing? are you using a harness or just your bcd and if you are using a harness what kind of harness are you using?

I am ice diving certified even during class we didn't use a harness, im just wondering if getting a harness is more a waste of money.  My thought is if you are in a situation in which you are having to remove your BCD you are probably in a situation in which you would just be better off returning to the surface.

[deepdarkblue]

I'd say if you are looking for a harness system, check out the Dive Rite Trans Pac.  It is by far one of the most versatile on the market, you can dive singles, doubles, rebreathers, and now side mounts, all on the same harness. 

You can purchase in the range of 4-8 different wings for it, and if you find a dive that you don't think you can do, then call Dive Rite and they'll tell you how to do it.  If they can't tell you, then they'll show you.  That is their guarantee.

Check them out.

[arcFlash]

I agree that the TransPac is nice. I have one but the wife always uses it. I use the TransPlate. 

When you say harness are you asking about the dedicated chest harness like they use in construction for fall arresters? We had them for those that had no steel D-rings or steel D-rings that didn't bartack in to something heavy. Several divers used them under their BC so you could remove your BC if you had too without getting off the line but I don't think I would want too.

My 2 cents: If your going to do more then OW diving a technical harness will give you configuration options you'll enjoy when you need to hang a pony, reels, lights, bags, .... 

[racer17m]

I appreciate the info, I currently have plenty of d-rings to click  X Y & Z things to.  I am just wondering what other ice divers are doing in regards to attaching the rope to themselves ie do most just clip it to their bcd or do most go with some other sort of set up ie some type of harness under their bcd or ???? I know lifeguard systems offers a safety harness for ice diving/rescue situations.

[grumpie]

Good Evening, You might try Life Guard Systems out in new york. their phone number is 1-845-331-3383. They have a very nice one for under your BC with all the D rings on it. If you would like to see one, let me know, I have several.
grumpie............

[MNDiver]

For ice diving I have always dove tethered with a harness.  Actually, I can not recall ever ice diving with anyone that does not use a harness.  I have dove with several shops in the area and done a bunch of ice dives. I am quite surprised that you did not use one in class.   

I have at times attached a line to my BCD for other types of diving and the one thing that I noticed that was different was the way the rope pulled on me and my BCD.  I felt like I was swimming on my side, or at least getting pulled that way.  The best I could make out was that for a harness it should be tight enough that you can just get a clenched fist under it.  I don't normally dive with my BCD that tight except for the strap on my waist.  The rest is a bit looser which allows me to breath a bit easier and move around a bit more.  When the rope was attached to my BCD, it kept trying to rotate the BCD on my body.  It was annoying, especially compared to using a harness.  So, using a harness gets two thumbs up.....

As for the harness.....   

I use the Lifeguard systems harness.   It is designed and made specifically for tethered scuba diving.  They even have multiple sizes for a better fit.  The harness does not get in the way of your dry suit inflator and lays pretty flat under your BCD so as not to get in the way.  The attachment points are pretty well thought-out.  I have been using the same one for about 7 years and it looks pretty new, but most importantly, it is still pretty flexable and adjustable (see below). The Sheriff's Dive Team I dive with uses the same harnesses and everyone likes them over the various other harnesses we have tried. 

Other types...    I have tried the chest part of a rock climbing harness and really did not like it much.  It kept getting in the way of my drysuit inflate button and was thick enough to feel it under my BCD.  The bow hunting/tree stand harness became pretty firm/rigid and was not comfortable or very adjustable after one season.  The one I bought also did not have sufficient attachment points. 

SeaYa diving in Shakopee is a Lifeguard Systems dealer if you are interested. That is where the Sheriff's Office buys them...

Keep an eye on the board, when some ice dives are set up that I can attend, I will bring a few extra harnesses so you can try one of them out. 

Chris....

[MAXFACTOR]

Racer  17,     I just sold the same type Grumpie and MNDIVER are talking about. 

I agree with them and wanted to say last night that you MUST DIVE WITH A HARNESS.   

You indicated that it was not "taught" in the class.  Which of course beckon's the burning question of where did you get your Training, and which agency are you ice certified in, because, I am not aware of any agency that would not endorse the harness system under your BC.  More then likely, either you don't remember or the instructor did not present it.... would be my guess.  Don't take offense to my suggestion above.

Additionally,  there are many reasons why you might need to take your BC off underwater, or under ice.  IE:   got tangled up, or to slip through a smaller opening. BUT YOU ALWAYS... want to be tethered.  My strongest recommendation, is that you go to your professional dive shop and invest in one.  I would guess that most of the shops  would have them in stock. 
I will be diving with 3 different shops ice events this year.  I am going to see "weather permitting" and work permitting, if I can get 20 ice dives in this year.  You are welcome to join,  keep an eye out on the various ice diving posts, or hook up with Smith or SDT etc.

Maxfactor

[racer17m]

I did not say that we were not "taught" to use one I said we didn't use them, we double clipped them to out bc's and had no problems. I'm not saying this is a correct or incorrect practice, I know it is not the recommended practice.  The shop well I won't name names they are however a very reputable shop and if its any consultation the rescue squad who came out with us diving on numerous occasions were not using harnesses either. 

I apprecaite everyone's feedback on this!  I have looked at the lifegaurd systems online, Can anyone tell me where the the D rings are located I looks like on on the front chest are there any others?

[grumpie]

Good Afternoon, A good one will have two D rings about chess high in front and one about shoulder blade high in back. The two in front, when pulled on will bring you in all most head first. the  tender line attached to the diver will be tied off to a ice anchor. The D ring in the back is used  when the harness is used by a tender, its tied off to a ice anchor also. When the tender falls in, or the ice breaks he can also be pull  out, believe me it does happen.
grumpie.......

[arcFlash]

I use a basic 2 inch web harness (without plastic buckle) and 2 inch crotch strap to a backplate. So 'the board' is suggesting I need another web harness under my BC harness?

I clip the line to the d-ring on the crotch strap so I can pivot around it and manage any slack with ether hand and to prevent the side pull like MNDiver said. The strap terminates at the plate and the buckle is doubled back (climbing style) and the other end is a sewn loop and threaded through the wast belt.  That being, the D ring is captive even if the stainless waste belt was to open.

Second Q, Why no buddy? They can be a very helpfull in the entrapment we keep listing as the main hazard. I like buddies under water but they talk too much on the surface. :-)