cdnn blasts PADI unsafe at any depth

[MAXFACTOR]

magelk,  I figured out what was blocking it.  I hadn't gone back into my own email to link back and activate the site.  GOT IT NOW...  Thanks.  I also deleted the copy and paste from they're site in my last  post.

I am not defending CDNN,  I do think it is a good site though.  As for cyber theft of pictures.  OOOPPPSSS,  probably every person I know has copped a picture.  AS for professional web sites publications, etc.  thats a different story of course, although it seems to me several major publicaitons have done so as well as several major beverage industry people and have also used copyrighted songs in they're television ad's without permission. 

YA KNOW WHAT I REALLY WISH,,,,,, I wish that I could get paid royalties for almost ever.... for my past work efforts at Wells Fargo. 

THE MESSAGE was all I was reporting.....   

Lets get diving.    I'm diving Crosby with ClaystainDiver  ----not this weekend but all next weekend if you're interested, come on up, were camping out. 

JOE
maxfactor

[Chuck_Northrup]

Just a clarification.

The Scuba Diver rating is not the same as the "Resort Course" or Discover Scuba Diving as has been previously mentioned.

The PADI Scuba Diver rating requires the student to complete Chapters 1-3 of the OW manual (including quizzes) and Confined Water Dives 1-3.

Once Open Water dives 1 and 2 are complete the Scuba Diver certification is given.  The Scuba Diver is more limited than the Open Water Diver in that they must have a "babysitter" (Instructor or DM) at all times in the water.

As far as the pi$$ing match between CDNN/TDS/any other web based forum, I am going to bow out    The two greatest advantages of the internet are the ability to anonymously slander whomever you choose, and facilitate access to "adult" content  :

[wan2Bcaver]

I'm not sure this article does anything for me -

whether scuba diver or resort course certified, the main thing that prevents you from getting into too much trouble is the fact that you can't get your tanks filled anywhere with those certs, so you have to go on a "guided" dive.  You are required to have a DM/Instructor with you at all times, and so they will babysit you and make sure you don't get into too much trouble (hopefully moreso when they see what kind of a cert you have). I've seen OW and AOW divers completely blow a planned dive and try to kill themselves. An AOW diver I was with in Cozumel went to 90fsw on our second dive because he was following a turtle. The ENTIRE dive party had to spend the rest of that dive at 35fsw looking at sand because this one idiot tried to kill himself.

My point is, DMs and instructors know what they are getting when you show up. If they choose to have 16 "scuba diver" rated divers with one DM, they will probably get a nice lawsuit and be out of business fairly quickly. The people I feel sorry for the most are people like myself, that pay attention, and do their best to be safe divers, because we are the ones that fork out thousands of dollars to go to tropical locations only to have our dives ruined by inattentive divers that don't know how terrible they are at diving. I hope my trip to fiji doesn't include an idiiot like that guy in cozumel, because I will insist I dive at a different site with a different DM.

Also - the beginning of the article references the blue hole - I was in belize 2 years ago and only had money for an AOW course or a trip to the blue hole. The first dive at the blue hole is to 130 feet. Reef sharks circle above your head. I've heard it is a magnificent dive. I'll have to get back there to experience it some day.

[dd_diver]

I read this some time ago, since I have PADI certifications, as well as NAUI and SDI.  IMO, the quality of education depends first and foremost on the instructor;  secondly, on the dive shop: and finally on the certification agency. Every prudent instructor will follow the minimum certification reqs for their agency, and  add to that as they feel is needed.   
 

[AandA]

I just had to wade (pun  : intended) in on this one.  I've got cards from NASDS, SSI, PADI, and SDI, and I'm always looking for that next class or certification.  The idea, as the article presents, that the PADI SCUBA diver certification class is somehow flawed as it does not prepare a diver to dive unsupervised by a DM or instructor misses the mark.  Training and certifications ALWAYS have limitations!!  The limitations are related to all kinds of things; how deep, what kind of breathing gas, overhead environment, presence of buddy, ambient light, etc,etc, etc...  No matter what level of certification an individual has, who is responsible for that person's safety???  I pose that an individual’s safety MUST lie with the individual.  Each time I take another class, I learn just a little bit more that I can apply to extend my ability to dive.  I also learn each time I take a class that there is MORE AND MORE AND MORE that I don't know!!  My point is that the class, any class only prepares or trains you to the direct confines and limitations of that class.  But it does open your eyes to the next step or higher levels of certification.  I agree with others on this thread who have indicated that they have seen "advanced" divers do REALLY STUPID things!  The flip side is I've also seen some brand new divers DIVE smart.  Do I ALWAYS do the smart thing? Have I ALWAYS stayed well within the limits of my training?  Heck NO!  I've pushed my limits before, and sometimes been STUPID too ( although I don't often admit it- especially to my wife).  I do a better and better job of staying with the limits of my training as I EXPAND MY TRAINING! 

I have yet to see ANY training class or certifying agency that, who would say that when the DM tells ya we're going down 50 to 100 feet BELOW what your current certification is rated to, "follow him." 

The temptation to dive BEYOND your personal limits is always there.  If you’re deep certified, ya want to go deeper, if yer cavern you probably want to go in the cave.

I would advise anyone to get training BEYOND what it is that they want.....What I mean is that I would advise anyone wanting anything below OW to get OW.  I would advise anyone with OW to go for advanced.  I would advise the advanced to go for Master.  You get the idea

My thoughts are that the problem lies not with the courses, but rather with irresponsible divers and dive leaders.

[eric myers]

Someone once told me...(here comes the old proverb)

Their are good people and stupid people in every area of life, unfortunately it's the stupid people that get all the attention (i.e. most people on the evening news).

Think about it though...

When your PADI Professional does something outside the bounds of PADI training or through their words or actions encourages reckless diving behavior you notice right away, right? Sure, you are ready pounce on the guy/gal report them to PADI or burn them at the stake, and why not...diving is dangerous business and there is no room for needless risk taking, especially when leading a group.

On the flipside, my concern is when you see a PADI Professional that does all the right things: acts appropriately, briefs, plans, provides and promote safety do you thank them or make just as big of a deal about them doing everything right as if someone who did it all wrong? Or is it just "par for the course?"

It's my opinion, just like in life, their are GOOD divers and their are BAD divers at every level OW-Course Director.

Just something to think about!

[MNLakeDiver]

I would add in front of your list that firs the quality depends on the student. I have seen students that just want to learn the answers not how to get the answers. I have an instructor that has said "education is the one thing people buy and dont want thier moneys worth" or somthing very simular. (now I'll probly owe him a beer for poasting it.)

[wtdrm]

You'll owe him a beer anyway!!! ;D >

[MAXFACTOR]

HEY JIM,  its always funny when  you post.  Because you always speeeelll  something wrong.

ANY WORD ON THAT CPR INSTRUCTOR PROGRAM YET?

JOE

maxfactor.

[wtdrm]

Max and YOU ALWAYS SHOUT when your typing 8) ;D