Transitioning from Rent to Own

[beeger]

Clifonef -

I feel compelled to add something here. Many of the points made above are quite sound. Lonnie’s advice in particular is quite good. But there is a slightly uncomfortable realization I think you will need to come to in order to make this process as easy, efficient, and productive as possible for you. Some people never make the realization and nevertheless go on to lead happy and productive diving lives, while others flop. Others do make the realization and I think it helps them tremendously.

Here it is … you are not yet qualified to really understand the gear you will be buying. You are too new to the sport and just don’t have the range of experience to really judge what will “work” for you in the broadest sense possible. This isn’t a bad thing. It’s normal and unavoidable, and will continue for some time.

How to deal with it? Here’s how: surround yourself to the greatest extent possible with the best divers you can find … divers that are doing the kinds of excursions you want to do … and do your best to learn from them. I’ll leave the discussion to what makes the “best divers” for another thread, but for now you will need to figure this out on your own. Find out what they use, why they use it, what else they’ve tried, what’s worked, what hasn’t, and why. Now, of course, a bit of common sense comes into play here: you don’t want to buy anything that you are not comfortable with or is maybe more advanced than what you truly need now or in the foreseeable future, go on blind faith, get caught up in group-think, etc..

Renting before owning and trying before buying are very sound strategies, but they don’t stand alone in a vacuum. Many a new diver has gone out and bought what they think works for them based on a quick dip in a local lake, or a brief class in the tropics. As their experience level grows, as well as their understanding and appreciation for the underwater environment, their understanding of what tools they need to make their diving experience as pleasurable, safe, and rewarding as possible also grows. The newer you are to the sport the greater this rate of change will be. While learning from other successful, "good" divers is no substitution for this it can go a LONG WAY to saving you A LOT of money, not to mention what it can do for your skills as a diver.

[Kirk]

I bought my first mask and snorkel after getting certified to dive.

I bought my first fins, regulator set, and warm water wet suit after about 50 dives.

I bought my first bcd, weight belt, cold water wet suit, and tank after about 70 dives (I knew I wanted to dive locally, and not just in the tropics).

I bought my first drysuit after about 100 dives (that was a bit of sticker shock), I also bought a cheap (or at least is was back then) digital bottom timer about that time.

After about 180 dives, I wanted to start doing some tech diving (things started getting a bit pricey at that point, I won't go into detail, but lets just say I have a lot of stuff, and many hundreds of dives since then I'm always tweaking my stuff).

I say buy the gear.  Sure gear is expensive, but you want to go diving..... right??  You need gear to dive.  Will it be the gear you really want, probably not..........., but you can always sell what you dislike and buy other gear later.  Scuba gear actually has great resale value.  OK, if bought new, you're not going to get what you paid for it, though the resale certainly off sets the cost of gear rental.

Don't be afraid to buy used gear either.  Your first regulator, buy new (or at least from a local dive shop that services their end of season gear before selling them off.... remember you need that thing to live under water....).  Other things (i.e. tanks, weights, bcd, fins, etc.), ....... who cares....  if you don't like it.... sell it.  Mask....  you want to buy that new, in a shop, you want to make sure it fits you.  A leaky mask, especially for a newer diver, really sucks....

As far as used gear. 

I've owned 5 bcds (Zeagle Ranger, Halcyon Pioneer, Dive Rite Classic, Dive Rite Junior, and Halycon Explorer), only one was purchased new.  I currently only have one (the Halcyon Explorer, it was bought used, has received more than its share of abuse, and still holding up.....  note to the original poster, don't buy this one, it would work like crap with a single tank) .... sold the other four, got my money back and then some, except for the one purchased new, that I got back for about 70 cents on the dollar...  not too bad in my opinion.

Tanks.... Of my 10 tanks.  8 were bought used (two of them were actually made when I was a little kid), though two of the tanks I bought new, little 6 cf argon bottles, a little specialty item, hard to find used...  Just make sure they are either in hydro, or if not, makes sure the seller will guarantee the passing of hydro, and of course adjust the price to include the cost of hydro testing.  (Hydros are needed every 5 years, and the cost of hydro is about $20 at All Safe Fire Testing over on Washington Avenue North, just northwest of downtown Minneapolis).  And of course, avoid the pre 1990 aluminum tanks.  They have a bad habit of going boom (!!!!!!!!!!!!).  And a lot of shops refuse to fill them (or at least those shops that have thinking owners and employees who have friends and family).  Those older aluminum tanks were made of a bad alloy which tends to get cracks in the tank neck. 

Wet suit, make sure it fits you.  Buy new or used at a shop or someone's home, don't order through the mail.  If it doesn't fit well, it will not do the job, and you will be cold.  - Kirk

[NorthlandDivers]

Back to your questions about wet suits and being short so most of the rack suits don't fit right.  I have the same problem.  There are a couple of solutions. One due nothing and just let the extra suit sit.  It usually ends up at the ankels.  Number 2 is Henerson has a program where with most not all but most of there wet suits they can add or subtract up to 3 inches from the legs or arms  There is a charge for them to do that and of course it has to be there suits but it does work.  One of the members to this board I know had it done.  He needed to add several inches as he has long legs and long arms and he is extremely happy with his new suit.
On the Bc's I would like to mention that the SeaQuest Balance BC gives you a great snug fit without the ride up you get from a lot of BC's.  The reason is they do a 3 point hitch on the vest where the shoulder straps meet the waist strap.  Those of you that do backpacking no how great that works.  Just food for thought.
The other thing that we do as a dive store is in our teaching gear we have the top line BC's.  They are all weight integrated back inflation BC's (Balance and Knighthawk).  We also teach our people with top end regulators i.e. Legend LX and Scubapro MK17/X650.  We also use top of the line dive computers.  A lot of them are air integrated and we even use hoseless computers.  Then in the class we teach everyone how to use them so they understand the menues and what the computer will and won't do for them.
That is an important step that sometimes gets forgoten.  The quality of gear you are trained on will make a difference and help you decide which gear you would like to buy.
That's just my 2 cents from a dive store.
Thanks

[beeger]

I'll second Northland's comments on Henderson. I own a couple of their suits. One I had tailored by Henderson to add a bit of length to the arms and legs, and take it in a little in the stomach. They did a very nice job and, more importantly, they did *exactly* what I told them to do ... no "creative interpretation" on their part. I can only imagine that shortening is even easier for them so I would expect good results.

[Clifonef]

Folks,  I have decided to go with a 7mm wetsuit as my first purchase, as I have little hope of enjoying myself while cold.  Fitting will be a challenge as I am only 5'4" (longer in the trunk), with big thighs, big calves, and a modest paunch.  Think wrestler gone to seed.  My ideal weight is 145, 150 is realistic, and 160 is more usual.

Looking at Henderson's sizing chart (for example), I would be somewhere between a x-small and a medium-large, depending on which measurement governed.  This is a wide range.  I understand that Henderson is willing to undersize the extremities, and this may help.  Other manufacturers do not seem to offer this service, so I've isolated Henderson as the preferred provider.  Also, thanks to you guys, preferred provider.

One reputable shop in the Cities has a Henderson 7mm available for $350.  It is in stock, marked down from its list price.  If I go with them, I will probably pay more to have a new one modified for me.

So an off-the-shelf item will probably be $350,  and a semi-custom $400 (just guessing), more with tax.

So, surfing the web, I found .  Building a full suit, with a sleeveless jacket, an "Oceanliner" w/titanium slippery inside, arm zips, leg zips, and custom fitting, I come up with a price of $365, on which I will probably pay no tax.  Knee & elbow pads extra.

This seems like a no-brainer to me.  Am I missing something?  Has anyone dealt with aquaflite before?   How do I know they can deliver a good product?

I'm assuming that any $365 suit that fits is better than any $700 suit that doesn't fit.  Es verdad?

Thanks,

Clifonef

P.S.  I can afford a $400 suit, but not a $400 mistake.
I'd love to hear your opinions.

[jasondbaker]

Another company that makes custom suits is: .  A custom suit sounds like the right way to go for your body type.

If you really take up local diving you will end up buying a drysuit. Good luck with the purchase.

[beeger]

I think either option might work. I don't think there is a wrong choice. However, the custom suit is a bit riskier in my opinion. You are introducing a whole new set of variables into the picture with this one. Yes, you might end up with an amazing suit, or you might not. I've heard of these custom wetsuit companies but don't know anyone around here who has had a custom wetsuit made. Somebody probably has. Maybe start by calling these companies and getting a feel for who they are and what they can provide.

A slightly safer bet, in my opinion, would be to have your preferred Henderson dealer bring some suits into the store (provided that they don't already have what you are looking for on the shop floor) for you to try on. Sounds to me like you need a short to medium length, with maybe a XL girth. Try on both sizes. Use to the sizing charts as a guidelines but don't put too much faith in these. Some materials, even from the same company, stretch considerably more than others. If you can tell Henderson that you need, for example, an XL suit with the arms and legs of a medium maybe they can tailor one of their stock suits for you. (FWIW, I think Henderson also does complete custom work, in addition to their "tailoring" which I have used.) I wouldn't dismiss Henderson, or any brand for that matter, until you have tried a few sizes on for yourself. Don't rely on the sizing charts. If the shop doesn't have what you need find one that does or have them bring in at least a couple of sizes. Buying an off the rack suit without trying it on (even if you do go the tailoring route with Henderson) is taking a risk that you can easily avoid.

Above all, don't stress this too much. As Jason said you will eventually be moving into a drysuit if you stick with local diving. For the first summer or two your dives won't be very long, so your exposure time will not be excessive, and you'll be having so much fun anyway the cold won't be the first thing on your mind. Get yourself a good fitting wetsuit ... but it doesn't have to be perfect. Invest in a good, thick set of gloves and a nice snug, thick, bibbed hood and you will do fine. Get some 5mm boots and wear wool socks underneath, or go for a thicker set of boots.

[Clifonef]

Do gloves go on before suit or after? 

Do boots go on before suit or after?

What benefit is there to having a full length undersuit beneath a wetsuit?

Thanks

[DiverQueen]

Undersuit, suit, boots, hood, gloves!

OR: I wish it was that simple! 

It also depends on the weather conditions.  If it's hot, set up scuba gear, cool yourself!  Put on wetsuit, rest, put on boots....Go in and get wet!  Come out and don scuba gear, hood, mask and gloves.

If it's cold, set up scuba gear but don't pre-breathe the reg. (Potential for freeze-up!)  Put on wetsuit, get in the car with the heater going nice and warm!  Come out and don scuba gear, hood, mask and gloves....Think about getting a full face mask! ;D

Go dive and have fun!

[Michelle Crowe]

Gloves go on last.
It is impossible to hook. snap, zip, latch & lock with gloves on. Especially if the gloves are of 5 or 7mm thickness. Steal mesh is even worse (for ocean diving)