fahrenheit 9/11

[Freedive WI]

At least our lakes don't have cranberries floating in them ;D ;D ;D

As long as their 'navagible cranberries'.

Jon

[scubadog76]

A new spin on Titanic: Cranberry, dead ahead :o

[jasondbaker]

A significant number of medicines and breakthroughs come from U.S. labs. The world's medical research dollars and scientists are located here. Many foreign drug firms have research labs located in the US. The problem is that we invent the best drugs and then every other country copies them and wants to sell them back to us cheaper. We accept the risk and expend the effort and now have to give away the market with no protection?

I find it interesting that we can export jobs all over, and then buy back the products cheaper, but not meds.

Next thing you will be telling us is how the Bush administration is doing nothing to stem the flow of jobs overseas to places like India. Should we send our union brothers' jobs overseas or suffer from high drug prices? For a liberal this question is a real quandary.

As far as what our friends think who pracitce medicine, all have regreted going into it as they say HMO's, and not trial lawyers, are ruining it as far as being able to give proper patient care.

HMO's are ruining service and choice. Malpractice insurance is ruining profits. Both are putting the squeeze on medical professionals. Why are people joining HMO's? Because they can no longer afford to go it alone. It is a viscious cycle.

[LKunze]

Check out this review on the movie made by a liberal even.

[rcojr]

I agree with Jon that the country is pretty evenly divided right now (Rep and Dem). I don't believe that means that 50% of the people agree with and support Moore's point of view. I know a lot of Dems. that think he is a clown.
The good news for the country is that the 30% of the loons on the right cancel out the 30% of the loons on the Left and the country is still run by the 40% in the middle. The moderates that don't get carried away with all the political BS and backstabing.
Just my 2 cents worth

[DRE]

Boy - I thought I would never be able to agree with a BOD diver, but here we are...

[ghosch]

I agree in principle, but it's probably more like the 15% on the fringe of either side. Though I don't appreciate being called a "loon."

[Freedive WI]

Lonnie, first off there are many other move reviews out there that you somehow neglected to find











Jason, as far as your malpractice ideas go here's a little something I found:

"The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) reported last year that "malpractice costs account for a very small fraction of total health care spending" and that even radical reform "would have a relatively small effect on total health plan premiums."

As far as drug companies getting richer off the new Medicare scam, due to non-competition clauses, which I thought you Republicans were supposed to be for, here's what I found:

"The average cost of the top 10 most-used prescription drugs went up 8.7 percent in 2003 alone. But the Bush Medicare initiative makes it illegal for the government to negotiate drug prices with the pharmaceutical industry, adding an extra $139 billion in corporate profits to the cost of the bill."

In Wisconsin, we have our Governor activly supporting importing goods form Canada and pushing the leaglity of the whole law.

Part of the problem with HMO's involved them making bad investments which they are now trying to recoup through higher insurance premiums.


When it comes to jobs overseas I had meant to make a few different points, but my dive buddy showed up in the middle of the post and we hit the road for a 35 mile bike ride so I didn't get to address all the issues- it was a great day for a ride though. 8)

First, any company that hides it's assests off-shore should not be eligible for government bids- especially non-bid ones. If we can keep France from bidding, we can keep these bums from bidding since I don't consider them to be real Americans to begin with.

When it comes to exporting jobs, this race to the bottom of the production costs will end up hurting all of us in the long run, especially in the area of a clean environment. If we would just ask the competing countries to take better care of their own people, or not buy from them, it would improve our competitiveness, and their standard of living- just look at "fair trade coffee" as a small example- not that we produce much coffee around here, but by only buying coffee from approved growers it improves the lives of those people without adding much to the price of our goods. The same has worked by boycotting goods made in overseas sweatshops. If we compete on a level playing field, where everyone's standard of living goes up, then we all end up winning in the end- which is what I call a real "family value".

As far as doing something to really improve our safety here at home Bush could have created thousands of jobs in Homeland Security. We still have the vast majority of our container ships going unchecked due to lack of manpower. We need tighter security around our chemical and nuclear plants. We could have created all of these jobs, and more, for what we're spending on our war In Iraq. This would have created real jobs that couldn't be shipped overseas and that would have truly made us safer at home- plus boosted our economy much better than any "trickle down theory" tax cut for billionaires.

Now, I know I haven't answered everyone's flames just yet, but this is more than enough for now. I feel that this is a never ending thread. I am quite positive that all of you will pick it apart and find some point to take me to task with, which is great that we can still do this in a free country no matter what Ashcroft tries to do, but I need to get onto other things and will only make another post at the most.

I know that all of you will still go on supporting Bush and railing against Michael Moore, since you all fit the demographic so well, just as I will go to my grave being an ardent Liberal, unless the parties flip-flop allegiances like they did some 50 odd years ago, so the most we can do for now is to agree to disagree. If we can't even agree on that, and some whack job starts advocating violence against anyone with a dissenting opinion from their own, then we have lost what the true meaning of this country is all about.

Jon

[BigFish]

Now that we've all had a group hug lets rember..

Moore is an "IDIOT" that is the point !!!!

:o ;D

[ghosch]

Yes, lets have the government negotiate drug costs, then we will have a de facto egalitarian society, there will be no expensive new drugs for anyone, even those who can afford it.

While you’re at it, let’s limit the cost of cars, it’s not fair that someone can drive a BMW while another has to drive a Ford (sorry to all you Ford owners), so let’s limit the cost of a 740IL to that of a Ford Taurus…ya that will make it fair, and I’m sure the BMW will still have the same quality and features. Those greedy Bavarian bastards are making a profit, shame on them, this has got to stop!

Outsourcing jobs, lets just stop it all now. Of course, when other countries stop outsourcing their jobs here, we’ll loose more jobs than we gain, but what the hell, it’ll get us some votes today, and a bunch more low paying jobs tomorrow.

Wait a minute, I’ve got a better idea, when we get our paychecks, we should just send them into the government, and they’ll send you back what they feel you need to survive. Oh wait, that’s been tried...

I’m guessing that no one on the board is a billionare, but every one on the board that pays taxes benefited from the tax cuts. Do the math, if you were in the lowest tax bracket you went from 15 to 10%, that’s a 33% reduction in your tax burden. If you’re in the highest tax bracket you went from 39.6 to 33% a 16% reduction. Also, progressive tax credits were increased like the per child tax credit. If you think the rich don’t pay any taxes you’re deluded, the top five percent still pays over fifty percent of all income taxes. The top 10% pays about 70% of the tax burden. The tax burden for ALL families is the lowest it has been in over 20 years.

I have a question, since liberals seem so willing to raise other peoples taxes, how many of them send an extra five percent in on their taxes with a note that says “I just didn’t feel I was paying enough, here’s a little extra for you, spend it wisely.” You don't have to take your "Bush Billionare Tax Cut" if you don't want it.

And yes, I am sure that more government jobs created would help homeland security. I feel so much safer now that I have to explain to a government employee that a cylinder without a valve on it is not a pressurized gas cylinder…Be real, the next attack will happen regardless of how many people are running around in white shirts with badges. The only way we can potentially stop it is better intelligence and preemptive action (that does NOT necessarily mean a war and should not be read as condoning or approving the current war, that’s a whole ‘nother debate). But if the white shirts make you feel better, I guess it’s worth the millions.

The true meaning of this country varies from person to person, most would say it includes freedom of expression (unless it’s not politically correct), freedom of (or from) religion, and a host of other “freedoms.” But to some of us it also means personal responsibility, and being able to realize your dreams through hard work. When we think of freedom we think of the ability to act as individuals, do for ourselves, and not have every aspect of our lives interfered with by the government. When THAT is gone, then we have lost what this country is all about.

I know that you’ll keep on bashing Bush and Ashcroft, because you fit the demographic so well, just as I will go to my grave being an ardent conservative (fiscally at least).

That’s slightly more than my $.02 worth.

P.S. Let’s remember what this is all about, Michael Moore is still an idiot ;D

P.P.S. I'm reading way to much about politics, and not nearly enough about diving.