St. Cloud State University Diving Class

[mcdiver]

I recently graduated from SCSU and during the years I attended, I heard more complaints from fellow students regarding their experience with the Scuba class offered at school. The students think that this is a good way to learn how to dive and get excited when it nears spring break and they can take these skills and go diving. Problem is, they have been "setup to fail."

The class is offered through a local instructor, representing an agency that has little supervision or him and his teaching habits. It is common knowledge that this instructor has been unable to pass the PADI or NAUI exams.

The equipment is subpar, that is too say, the equipment leaks air on a continues basis, to include 1st stages and BC's. In some cases, the plastic cable-ties hold gear together.

I have had friends who have taken the course and they have told me that the final exam is an open-book, one of my friends told me that she was even allowed to take the final exam home with her to finish over the weekend. Another friend told me that he wanted to complete his "check out dives" during his spring break in Florida, but the Instructor told him, "Ah, you did pretty good in the pool, if you just pay me the check-out dive fee, I will just sign-off on those dives, then you will have your certification card before you go."

The fee that this Instructor charges for the class is so low that other Instructor's in the area can not, nor will not, compete with his offer to the school to teach this class. The sad part is, that these kids are coming out of this class not knowing any better and believing that they are ready to dive. I recently spoke with a couple who were taking a Nitrox class at a dive store in the cities and they told me about there experience with this Instructor at SCSU. They just shook their head regarding their expereience with this guy, saying how unhappy they were and how little did they actually learn.

I guess this is nothing more than a "Scuba Mill" who is pumping-out so called certified divers who are not prepared for the real world of diving.

You get what you pay for.

[DiveCaptDean]

It sounds like maybe you should do something about it. 

I looked at their sight and they dont say much about it other than its a 2 credit course that shows that it teaches techniques in Skin and scuba diving..its states nothing of a certification.  Maybe you should present yourself to the school..or try to get in under the Outdoor Recreation class( which is seperately run)  explain to them what you can do..show your certifications and the agency that backs you...that one way that PADI can help you out quite a bit...if you do it right..with the tools that you have access to..you should be able to impress them enough to let you show them what you can do...maybe you will have to provide someone with a free certification....Regarding the cost of it all....student pay by the credit...your fees should come out of that money from the shool.  its should be plenty to comfortably cover any time expenses you may have.  if you do this..and are able to get an in....you should also be able to bring in any other non college open water students into the class..this way..cutting down your overhead for them as well..

If you can prove to them that what you offer is far superior to what they have now..and you can prove that what they have now is not from a recognized agency....well.....it should be a no brainer...

Give it a try..you just may land something that would be a very good long term thing for a young instructor...

G/L
Deano

[mcdiver]

Once again, I will refrain from naming the Instuctor, his dive store, and the agency he certifies through. With that being said, any more detail regarding this would definately be degrading him, his business, and the agency.

Everything you mentioned in your post has been addressed to the University, however, their bottom line is that he can offer a scuba class for far less then anyone else, thus putting more money into their pockets. Information was provided to the University regarding the risks of scuba diving and what a business does to protect itself from such risks, to include liability insurance. The University was told to request such information for their own safety, they were not concerned.

I know that when I offer my scuba classes through the various community education programs, they always request a copy on my liability insurance, and make sure that they are listed under: Additionally Insured.

Obviously if I did not carry liability insurance, did not have my students equipment regularly serviced, did not have my tanks inspected, I could offer my classes for far less money. Then it would be "all about me," what is the fastest and easiest way to put money into my pockets, afterall, should something happen, the Attorney's for the victim will search-out the defendant with the "deepest pockets," which in this case, would be the University.

[DiveCaptDean]

If this is true..and there is in fact a good chance that this instructor does not carry insurance and is not teaching according to the guidlines set by his training agency....thus putting his students in any kind of danger.......then maybe a letter to the editor of the local news paper may be in order...i also bet you may be able to find an eager journalist from the college paper that might be willing to write an article on it...

[Hydro]

this sounds fishy, id guess there is an agenda here, esp since you haven’t taken the class yourself, yet you have so much to say about what you have heard

i have taken his class and i can vouch for the quality of his teaching method.
his gear is old, but it is good quality gear, not once did i have a problem with a leaky reg, or bcd. I know 4 other people that haven taken the class as well and can vouch for his teaching ability.

the price is lower than a normal dive shop because the college credits only cover the class and pool instruction, not the open water dives which are separate and optional if you plan on becoming certified. in the end its comparable to any dive shop class in price.

"It is common knowledge that this instructor has been unable to pass the PADI or NAUI exams."
this is just an asinine half-truth thing to say, as he works for a different agency (MDEA)

i still have all my course work and the text, and i also have other scuba books and videos... the coursework from the class covers everything PADI and NAUI books cover.

As with any class, it requires students to make an effort to learn, you can pay thousands of dollars to go to a good school and still be an idiot.

[mcdiver]

I guess if you having nothing to compare the training to, I can understand why you might feel that it was a good class.

So it seems that those students that later approach me with questions about diving must have been total idiots? or perhaps the Instructor has just "lowered the bar".

But the bottom line is, you get what you pay for. You want a cheap experience, you pay a cheap price.

[Hydro]

hurmm they were prolly poor students, ive taken padi classes as well and theres really not much difference in instruction.

"But the bottom line is, you get what you pay for. You want a cheap experience, you pay a cheap price."
again i disagree with this idea, it may be true with buying a product, but learning is a different matter

ive already explained it isnt cheap either, when i went to school there, the credits were about $90 and the class was something like 2 credits... so $180 for classroom instruction, then the openwater dives were separate of like $150-200 i cant remember offhand.... credits at st cloud are now like $150?  so your whole claim that hes selling certs for $10 out of the back of his van is silly

i think the bottom line is you want him out, and you want the gig,,, drumming up support on a web forum wont make this happen.

[Dr. Pepper]

  I've done a "fun" dive with the above unnamed instructor.  He's crazy.. In more ways than one (do some checking there  ).  He has unmarked tanks with "special" gas in them that he hands out to anyone who asks, no analyzing required..  He also didn't seem to believe in gear servicing as he had three regs freeflow on him (all out first stage freeflows) before he found one to dive with that day.  I didn't feel safe diving with him and I'm a pretty experienced instructor.  I sure wouldn't trust a family member or friend to his so called instruction.

[mcdiver]

How shallow minded we can be at times.

It isn't that I want him out, it is that he is not doing the dive industry any favors. All he is doing is creating an environment that is not in his students best interest, and as a student, they really have nothing to compare his class to to see if they are getting a quality education.

If you owned a Ford Pinto, and that is the only car that you have ever owned and ever driven, of course you would think that it is the greatest car ever made. It isn't til you take that ride in the Cadillac that you truely realize what a piece of crap the Pinto really is.