ice diving harness question

[MNDiver]

I think that there are so many options because there are so many types of diving.  From commercial diving to your basic discover diving class.   I am sure ice diving in the artic is quite a bit differnet than diving one of our local lakes.  Differnet procedrues and gear for differnt types of diving.  Plus, just a few of us that are nuts about diving can't keep all the dozen or so local shops in business. ;D ;D ;D

All the SCUBA agencies are in the business to make a profit.  If they all agreed, how could they set themselves apart from the other guys and 'sell' their product?  My experience has been that the agencies set minimums for the class, it is up to the store & instructor to add value to set themselves apart.   All the training and gear choices just help you make more informed personal choices. 


Shooter... I take it you are not a DIR fan?

And for the record, you are all wrong.... HALO for the mac freaking rocks!  It is the best game ever....

Later,

Chris

[arcFlash]

I understand MNDiver but it doesn't make me feel better. I'm looking at ordering some ICE books and I'll pick out a harness, that isn't $200!

I remember my grandfather telling me, "You are born with a bucket full of luck and an empty bucket of knowledge. The trick is to fill the bucket with knowledge before your luck runs out." This just make it a little harder.

Now, lets get back to this New Years diving. Who's going?

[LKunze]

I don't ice dive yet but may in the future.  If and when I do I would personally use Shooter's method of clipping to my harness shoulder D-Ring.  I too dive a backplate/wing setup vs. a jacket or rear-inflate BC.  I like the streamlined and solid feel to the BP/Wing and would not want to change the standardization of my current gear configuration.  It's all up to what you want and what you are comfortable with but keeping everything standard in my opinion is the better way.  Why change what is working for you if you don't have to?  If I dive in the caribbean or locally my gear configuration is always the same (though I do use a smaller wing for warm water diving) and it works just fine for all types of diving that I do.  The only difference is in the exposure protection that I wear. 

[corndogg2]

Divers need to take what they learn in the scuba classes with a grain of salt.  Maybe think about it for themselves and make up their own minds. Stop treating books and classes like they are the final word and realize they are only one collection of ideas. Back in the day people had ideas and tried new things.  They didn't feel the need to have to ask their mommy and read the dive bibles. They just went out and did it!

I am not interested in diving a harness but I do remember the guy running the line spinning me around a few times because I had the line clipped to my shoulder.  Off the scooter ring between your legs would be good I think.

My gear config is always changing depending on what kind of dive I do.  Doubles singles big stage, small stage, no stage, whatever.  PLan the dive and take the necessary equipmant.  It's just that simple.

I do what I want, science damn it.

[grumpie]

When it comes down to it,  what ever dive shop you go to will sell you the universal wigget harness that is good for every thing. I have seen a blue  harness with a belly strap, a strap between the legs { that must hurt when the rope is pulled on} a strap around the chest, and don't forget the shoulder straps and every place a strap crosses a strap there is a D-ring. I'm not sure what harness is good for but it seems to me M-S might be a place to start.
All you need for ice diving is a good chest and shoulder harness with welded D-rings and locking Bennie's
grumpie.........

[MNDiver]

$200 scuba bucks for a ice harness seems like a bunch. :o  If you don't mind diving with a store sponsored ice outing, most of the dive stores in town provide harnesses on their outtings. 

If you do dive with shops, take the extra $200 and buy dive camera equipmet.  Once you get into underwater photography,  $200 will seem like a bargain...

[racer17m]

Lifeguard systems offers their harness on their website for $52 that is the best price I have seen for a harness any where...any type of harness.

I know about the camera and accessories prices we just spent a bunch and it seems like no matter how much you spend there is always more and then when you get it all technology changes!!!

[AandA]

Too much emphasis on training ??? ???

I have certainly enjoyed obtaining C-cards from various agencies for different types of diving situations .  The classes are ALL useful.  The classes are also, however limiting.

For ME I have come to the conclusion that the REAL learning comes AFTER the class....The class gives the diver a framework from which to experience the specific type of diving.  The real learning comes from the individual Diving Diving and more Diving.  Protocols and training is GREAT!  Appropriate Dive configurations for the right equipment is GREAT!  I have dove with many of you and I learn a bit from each of you.   Each dive I make is somewhat different.  The environment is dynamic not static.  

I am a firm believer in individual risk assessment.  In my opinion there is NOTHING written in stone as the RIGHT way ta dive ( OK so this may actually be an almost anti-DIR statement...oops).   In risk assessment one of the important premises is to balance out various identified risk factors.  In doing this it can be humbling for me to realize that some of the greatest risks are NOT from what I don't know or can't anticipate...but from what I'm sure I know, but is either wrong or could be wrong if applied under the wrong circumstances.  (In other words Murphy had it backwards---It's not what ya think can go wrong that necessarily will,  situations get bad really quick when…. what ya think can't possibly go wrong - does!)

As to the question of to wear a harness or not to wear a harness, or what kind of harness to wear.....  If  I cannot see BOTH advantages and disadvantages to any piece of gear ESPECIALLY GEAR I BRING INTO AN OVERHEAD ENVIRONMENT, I seriously consider reevaluating what I THINK I know.  

I agree with those who have stated that there are many right ways to ice dive.   Some protocols will better serve individual divers better under specific circumstances.  Personal judgment and critical individual risk assessment I consider vital.  

[Shooter]

Shooter... I take it you are not a DIR fan?


Later,

Chris
[/quote]

  The majority of my gear is configured towards the d.i.r. diving.  I was fortunate enough to do my open water diving with Tim O'Leary, who is head of the NAUI technical dive operation.  He wrote the RGBM dive algorithm, along with   Bruce Weinke.  He sold me all of my current dive gear.  I have been very happy with it and seen its advantages compared to some of the other dive configurations.  I like the versatility it has in being able to build off a simple start.  I do however change some things to suit my personal needs( ;D SPEARFISHING ;D), and he usually gives me hell about it every time he sees me.  Maybe I should  start a DIR spearfishing course! ;D.

I do not believe however that everybody should dive with my exact same gear configuration.  I believe that is up to individual choice and what works best for that individual.  If I'm going to be diving together with people as a team , I think uniform gear configuration will work the best.

[corndogg2]

Finally, I am the winner.  I have top posted in all of the latest topics. 


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