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Interesting video - john j - 12-10-2007
Here is a link to a video that might be of interest to the CCR folks. Especially Inspiration/Evolution.
Re: Interesting video - airdownthere - 12-10-2007
John, Thank you for sharing this video. This is something that everyone should watch - open cicuit divers included.
Scott
Re: Interesting video - wtdrm - 12-11-2007
This is a great video. I am fortunate enough to have learned from the best. Ron Benson, for all of his personality faults is one of, if not the best, most accomplished divers/instructors we have in this market. In fact I think he was John J's 1st tech instructor. I have dove the CCR, albeit in a pool environment. I do own and regularly dive a Dolphin SCR and I think John also started on a Dolphin SCR. John as you know is a very accomplished diver and an instructor on the Inspiration as well. I received my training from CN111, who was trained by Ron B. The #1 thing beaten into my head was, 'if something feels wrong it is, switch to OC and abort the dive. Ron and Chuck believe in carrying a separate bailout. So do I.
I had 1 dive that was similar to this persons experience.
I had left the cover off of my scrubber cannister fro a couple of weeks. ( I didnt know any better?), I know I was told to not do that, however I just didn't realize the ramifications.
During the dive I started to feel just like this guy did, Rule # 1 (switch to OC and abort the dive. I did just that. I always carry a 30CF pony plus I have an air 2 on my Drager bottle. I switched, told my buddy what I was doing and we surfaced. I am still alive today. Thanks to Ron and Chuck.
I have roughly 120 dives on the Dolphin. For me it is a great fun tool. However it is still a machine and I don't trust machines.
Anyway, CN111 is not instructing anymore, however don't be afraid of the re breather world. They are a great tool in their place.
The fact that people were reusing the scrubber is just plain frugality. Scrubber is about 10-15 dollars per fill. What is their life worth.
John may do a re breather intro at sometime in the future. If he does, attend. even though you may not ever want to dive one, remember "a good diver is always learning". i take that 1 more step. " a good diver is always learning"
CJ
Re: Interesting video - MAXFACTOR - 12-12-2007
John, Thanks for sharing that video link. iT JUST GOES TO SHOW, THAT EVEN THE PREPARED ARE NOT and it takes time for experienced divers to recognize others problems.
NEVER LEAVE YOUR DIVE BUDDY...and always look out for any signs of stress or different behavior then what would be expected.
I was very sorry to hear that CN3 is no longer teaching, because to this day, I still believe he is the best. Yes, it is true that he learned from the best, but I think the Student, surpassed the teacher. That is not to say that I don't think Ron is great, but all factors considered, Psychology has to also be a factor, in the instructor I would choose. Additionally, after the last tragic accident we had up in Crosby, with Jere, on a rebreather, which from what I've been able to determine was DIVER ERROR, not instructor error. BUT.... , it makes me pause as to the attributes of that great instructor and his actions and or lack of actions after the fact which would absolutely preclude me from taking any additional classes of any kind from him.
Last thought..... EVERYONE SHOULD DIVE WITH A REDUNDANT 30 OR MORE.
as soon as my divorce is over, i hope to get further instructed on rebreather and start diving again.
maxfactor
Re: Interesting video - jasondbaker - 12-12-2007
I've never heard of the practice of repacking the scrubber with used material. Is this common with local or US rebreather users?
Re: Interesting video - john j - 12-13-2007
It's pretty common practice locally at least. I still see people doing it from time to time and it spooks me. I was originally taught that way but thankfully, I was corrected by someone I met later on.
When it comes to safety, human beings are a strange lot. Many people conclude after they do something a few times and don't get hurt, that what they are doing is safe, when it really is not. You can't conclude something is safe just because you have never observed a failure while doing it. In other words, if you have never had a failure, you cannot conclude that you have a large safety margin. You could have unknowingly almost killed yourself numerous times. That mindset is exactly what led to the space shuttle accidents. For example, if you look into the space shuttle's history, statistics had predicted a much higher accident rate than was originally observed. After numerous shuttle launches without any serious failures, many NASA people stopped believing the predicted failure rates, dismissing them as far too conservative. Certain Engineers issued warnings and some even got in trouble with NASA management for rocking the boat (or maybe rocking the rocket). Then management started pushing things, ignoring the data that predicted they should not. Result: several terrible accidents. Looking at it now, the actual shuttle accident rate is very close to what the original statistics predicted. Curiously, human beings (myself included) seem predisposed to that way of thinking and we have to make a conscious effort to avoid it. Some research indicates that complacency seems to be instinctive in human beings. This is akin to the way that fatty, salty foods taste good and we like to eat them, but they are not good for us.
I have pointed this all out to some folks that are still dumping their scrubber into bags for later use and they almost always completely dismiss my concerns because they "have always done it that way and never had a problem" and "I know xxx other guys that are doing it and they never had a problem." Without any data, they are convincing themselves that they have a wide safety margin, so they keep doing it that way. If you read the book I list below, a case is described where several mountain climbers died becasue of that method of reasoning. A rope that was intended as a safety device, pulled them all off the moutain and over a cliff. Previously, the climbers had "always done it that way and never had a problem" and "saw xxx other people doing it that way and they never had a problem." Even though people had told them not to climb that way, they felt safe because they never observed an accident with that method. There was never a problem for them because none of these guys had ever had an actual falling event to test their system. When they finally did have a fall, the rope pulled all of the climbers off the mountain together and over the cliff. No safety margin at all.
On a side note, a very good book on accidents and human behaviors that lead to them is DEEP SURVIVAL, by Laurence Gonzales. It is not about diving, but accidents in general and the human behaviors that cause them. I recommend it for anyone who does technical diving. It's not a boring technical book, but rather like a series of short adventure stories with post accident discussion.
Re: Interesting video - arcFlash - 12-13-2007
My experience rock climbing has lots of these stories. It's really easy to get sloppy. You wouldn't think so but its true. Last time the anchor was weak and you had to use it. This time you skip the 'extra' gear. My rule to stop the slide was I always hung over the edge on my anchor. That way I would always have to ask myself, is this strong. One time, I said no and it actually surprised me. One second it "was good enough" and the next "it was junk". It's just so easy. Todd Skinner died because he didn't replace his worn harness and it failed.
On last one, I think the quote is Admiral Nimitz. "As a sailor you'll make mistakes, as a captain it's your duty to make sure you don't make them all at a single point in time."
Re: Interesting video - AandA - 12-13-2007
;D
WOW!
GREAT video!!
Once again it proves the common misconception point.... The common point being " What you don't know can kill you." Please understand I don't disagree with that, I just don't think it's a complete statement. My counterpoint has been and continues to be "It's sometimes what you think you DO know (and are wrong) that can kill you."