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+---- Thread: This makes me wonder (/showthread.php?tid=1522)
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This makes me wonder - LRRP02 - 06-14-2004
I see DIR stands for doing it right. Does this stand for what is right to you or what is right by the law and standards?
As read many of the articles through out this site I see many of you claim to be DIR but yet as I read I see people doing solo diving diving without a dive flag Than brag to be DIR
If you are going to do it right than pratice what you preach
Re:This makes me wonder - jasondbaker - 06-14-2004
I believe it is based on what is "right" according to the GUE (). All training organizations promote practices, methods, and processes. The DIR name is simply marketing.
Quote:As read many of the articles through out this site I see many of you claim to be DIR but yet as I read I see people doing solo diving diving without a dive flag Than brag to be DIR
I'm not DIR. I have met dozens of divers that have integrated some elements of DIR into their diving. But that doesn't mean those divers are "certified" DIR.
LRRP02, why do you care what so-called DIR divers do anyway??
Re:This makes me wonder - DRE - 06-15-2004
No, it stands for what is accepted by the WKPP and GUE and is a continualy evolving paradigm, but always true and tested in the most extreme conditions. The term DIR stems from an article George wrote in 1995 for Deeptech magazine called "Do It Right or Don't Do It at All"
If the person diving solo claims to be DIR, call him for what s/he is, a stroke (no offense intended, but that's what we call someone with an unsafe attittude - especially if they should know better). The dive flag issue has been brought up in a recent thread. I personally don't dive with a flag as I believe it does not add to my personal safety (I use a diving marker bag to ascend - BTW, you should have seen how close boaters were running to the flags this last weekend at Square Lake - if you believe that you've got a 50ft safety margin around the flag to come up you're sorely mistaken, and there were at least three different classes going on at the same time). Standard GUE policy is to follow local regulations, so their official stance would be to disagree with me, but then again, who cares about my opinion anyways... :
Re:This makes me wonder - tcjtn0 - 06-15-2004
No, it stands for what is accepted by the WKPP and GUE and is a continualy evolving paradigm, but always true and tested in the most extreme conditions. The term DIR stems from an article George wrote in 1995 for Deeptech magazine called "Do It Right or Don't Do It at All"
If the person diving solo claims to be DIR, call him for what s/he is, a stroke (no offense intended, but that's what we call someone with an unsafe attittude - especially if they should know better). The dive flag issue has been brought up in a recent thread. I personally don't dive with a flag as I believe it does not add to my personal safety (I use a diving marker bag to ascend - BTW, you should have seen how close boaters were running to the flags this last weekend at Square Lake - if you believe that you've got a 50ft safety margin around the flag to come up you're sorely mistaken, and there were at least three different classes going on at the same time). Standard GUE policy is to follow local regulations, so their official stance would be to disagree with me, but then again, who cares about my opinion anyways... :
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Gotcha on that boat thing!!! Those jet skies got really close...(or at least they sounded like they did... :o ) I wanted to bury myself under the platform(s) a couple of times...And of course , our dive flag made no difference to them !!!
Jean
Re:This makes me wonder - Mark Y - 06-15-2004
I've always found it interesting that GUE/DIR, associates itself directly with WKPP (Woodville Karst Plain Project - ).
Kudos to George Irving (WKPP Project Director) and Jarrod Jablonski (WKPP Training Director & Halycon CEO) for taking over something they didn't start and turning it into their main marketing tool.
It's, like, just my opinion, man. 8)
Re:This makes me wonder - DRE - 06-15-2004
I've always found it interesting that GUE/DIR, associates itself directly with WKPP (Woodville Karst Plain Project - ).
Kudos to George Irving (WKPP Project Director) and Jarrod Jablonski (WKPP Training Director & Halycon CEO) for taking over something they didn't start and turning it into their main marketing tool.
It's, like, just my opinion, man. 8)
[/quote]
Uhm, George is no longer Project Director and why wouldn't you use it as your main marketing tool (although I wouldn't quite agree with that assessment): under their lead the WKPP amassed numerous world records, has a perfect safety record (which cannot be said about the WKPP pre-George) and that's where DIR truly developed. If you read enough of the older posts you'll notice the current guys' admiration for what some of the old timers like Bill Gavin, Parker Turner, et al. did, but truth be told, the current breed took it to whole different level. While GUE started out of the ranks of (mostly) WKPP divers, now the WKPP is only one of several GUE sponsored research projects worldwide.
BTW, marketing a training agency based upon the diving accomplishments of their founders can be found anywhere: didn't Gilliam used to brag about his dive on a single AL80 to 500ft on air to promote his extended range courses, Mount on all of his rebreather exploits, etc.? The NSS-CDS and NACD still keep using Sheck as their idol and his accomplishments to support their mission (and Sheck contributed an awsome amount to the cave diving community at large), but he's been dead for more than ten years!
Re:This makes me wonder - MNLakeDiver - 06-15-2004
I've always found it interesting that GUE/DIR, associates itself directly with WKPP (Woodville Karst Plain Project - ).
Kudos to George Irving (WKPP Project Director) and Jarrod Jablonski (WKPP Training Director & Halycon CEO) for taking over something they didn't start and turning it into their main marketing tool.
It's, like, just my opinion, man. 8)
[/quote]
I'm sorry Mark Y but (i cant beleive I'm saying this) I have to side with the DIR corwd here :-[
I don't rember anyone from GUE/WKPP saying they started the hogarthian way of diving. but they have refined and documented the system well.
I am not a DIR diver but I have read some of their info and alot makes sense I just find it over kill for the type of diving I do.
As for marketing somthing they didn't invent they are just fallowing the lead of Steve Jobs,Bill Gates, Henry Ford...
welcome to a free economy ;D
Re:This makes me wonder - Mark Y - 06-15-2004
(1) My mistake identifying George as the Project Director - I assumed, incorrectly, that the WKPP's website was updated.
(2) I did not make any relationship between DIR/GUE and the hogarthian way of diving.
(3) Didn't know about Gilliam's 500 ft. plunge w/ a single 80 Al - that's crazy! As for Mount, I don't think I've seen him take credit for other people's exploits.
(4) GUE is one of many WKPP's sponsors. What other project do they sponsor? Are they mostly cave-orientated?
BTW - I'm not pro or anti GUE or 'Doing It Right'. Well, that's not entirely true . . . I do have some DIR training: Diving Inspiration Rebreather!
Re:This makes me wonder - DRE - 06-15-2004
Casey McKinley is now the Project Director - before he was the Project Coordinator and running most of the day to day stuff.
Main took a bunch of stuff from a lot of different people and put it together as the Hogarthian rig. The DIR equipment configuration is based upon that (check out Jarrod's article on the GUE website: ), but DIR goes beyond just gear.
Nor do the current WKPP guys; they crecit the people who deserve credit but they aren't shy either about their own accomplishments. The level of integration with regards to the DIR as a holistic concept and the team coordination within the WKPP during the last 7-8 years wasn't something anyone before ever did. BTW, if you check out the history section of the WKPP website you'll find all of the major players listed with their accomplishments, so I'm still not sure where the "taking credit for other people's exploits" is based upon?
They have the EKPP in Europe, which is all cave exploration; they did the Britannic 99 project; there's a project going on in the Baltic through Ocean Discovery; I believe DirItalia is doing a wreck project in the Mediterranean; Chris LeMaillot and Danny Riordan are working on several cave exploration projects in the Yucatan; and I believe there planning on doing a TV documentary on the Gunilda in the near future. They're also partnering with the other major training agencies on the Spring and Cave Conservation Project. There might be some other projects going on on a smaller scale that I'm not aware of...
Hope this helps,
David
Re:This makes me wonder - FMT - 06-16-2004
LRRP02, why do you care what so-called DIR divers do anyway??